Spot a detail

You can talk about anything here

Moderator: Global Moderator

Post Reply
User avatar
Marksman_Anders
Corporal
Corporal
Posts: 51
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2008 1:12 am

Spot a detail

Post by Marksman_Anders »

Call me crazy and all, but the other day I got to think about which of Changdao, Landsknechts and Doppels sword were the longest (insane yes - must be those funny blue pills with Darth Vader on them talking again)

So why not spot a detail if anyone is in for it. :o

The Changdao sword is definitely longest:

Image

Spot a detail and post it here if ya like. :)
gg

djdan
N3O Member
N3O Member
Posts: 1660
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2007 3:03 am
Steam: SpanktheMonkey
AOE3 Nickname: djdan

Re: Spot a detail

Post by djdan »

All three have the exact same posture and structure and the also have the exact same stance, basically the same unit apart from the length of the sword and the clothes
From the OP maker of the OP Sigs, Cleeduz brings maybe some of his best work yet!
Image

User avatar
RascalJones
N3O Member
N3O Member
Posts: 1275
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2007 1:22 am
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Contact:

Re: Spot a detail

Post by RascalJones »

Changdao...

click for pic of changdao
Ming Dynasty two-handed swords (probably early to mid-17th century) known then as the "changdao" but are more popularly known today as the "Miao Dao". These blades have ridged cross-sections and were obviously inspired by the large Japanese swords (known as "nodachi") used by the Japanese pirates raiding the Chinese south-eastern coast. As for the diagrams showing the swordsmen, they are from a Ming martial arts manual published in 1621.




These large 2-handed sabers were first used by the Northern Border Troops under the command of Ming General Qi Jiguang in the late 1560s-70s to deal with Mongol cavalry, and remained in use right up to the late Ming (1620s-1644). At that time, these sabers had an overall specified length of 1.95 meters. General Qi, who lived from 1528-1587, had written the influential training manual "Lian Bing Shi Ji" while he was the commanding and training officer for several northern units bordering Mongolia. Commanding about 100,000 men, some of the best troops of the Ming empire, he had successfully deterred Mongol aggression at the border for over 10 years.

...

The percentage of non-artillery soldiers in the Combat Wagon Force and Baggage Supply Train equipped with this musket/Miao Dao combo (ie those who are not manning the cannons) is 50%.

...

Another 50% of the Infantry Force are also equipped with the combo. As for the Cavalry Force, the muskets/Miao Dao takes up 20%.


One simple and specific training technique for General Qi's soldiers wielding the Miao Dao is to setup two thick wooden poles, one short and one long, spaced 2 feet apart.

The soldier will then use the Miao Dao like a zhanmadao, bending low while advancing and striking first at the bottom part of the shorter pole to simulate cutting through the horse's legs, afterwhich he will raise and turn slightly to strike the upper part of the longer pole, simulating the strike on the horse's head -- A practical scenario for when the horse dies, the enemy soldier/rider loses his mobility and becomes meat on the platter for the Chinese soldiers.
Cool stuff out there....

http://thomaschen.freewebspace.com/photo2.html

Landsknechts were trained in the use of the famous long pikes and used the pike square formations developed by the Swiss. The majority of Landsknechts would use pikes, but others, meant to provide tactical assistance to the pikemen, accordingly used different weapons. For example, an experienced Landsknecht could be designated a Doppelsöldner, and instead of wielding a pike as did more recent recruits, would employ a six to eight foot long halberd or partisan, or, more famously, a zweihänder, a two-handed sword as long as 6 feet (although it was generally called at the time a beidhänder rather than a zweihänder). These great war swords could be used to hack off the heads of enemy pikes; or more likely to knock the pikes aside, creating disorder among the tightly arranged enemy pikemen in order to break through their lines.


Ernst Friedrich, margrave of Baden-DurlachHowever, this tactic seems to have been of limited value, and was dropped after around 1510 - their Swiss adversaries had specifically prohibited it when they went over to widespread use of the pike in the early 15th century, because the weapon was too large to use in constricted pike warfare. "Doppelsöldner" meant "double mercenary", because they were paid double the wages of their less experienced counterparts.

Other Landsknechts would use the Arquebus, the precursor to the musket. When the Landsknechts were first formed, Arquebusiers composed up to an eighth of the total number of soldiers, but the number gradually grew to be about a quarter.

The universal Landsknecht weapon was a short sword called a Katzbalger, carried in addition to the Landsknecht's main weapon. Indeed, the Katzbalger was seen as the very symbol of the Landsknecht, Swiss illustrators being careful to depict it to indicate that a mercenary was a Landsknecht rather than a Reisläufer.

So, Dopps = Landsknechts, but higher paid. So why are the Landsknechts mercs, and the Dopps trainable?

User avatar
Soccerman771
N3O Officer
N3O Officer
Posts: 2874
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2008 7:25 am
Location: Sachse, Texas (near Dallas)
Contact:

Re: Spot a detail

Post by Soccerman771 »

[quote=""Marksman_Anders""]Call me crazy and all, but the other day I got to think about which of Changdao, Landsknechts and Doppels sword were the longest (insane yes - must be those funny blue pills with Darth Vader on them talking again)

So why not spot a detail if anyone is in for it. :o

The Changdao sword is definitely longest:
Spot a detail and post it here if ya like. :)[/quote]

The longest sword and the weakest unit.. :(
jtackel@hotmail.com

"Do you know how difficult it is to micro Napalm?" - Lazy_Tuga

"This isn't going to work. I've picked a water deck and there isn't even a pond on this map." - Blackadderthe4th

KingKaramazov
Brigadier
Brigadier
Posts: 1216
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2007 12:12 pm
Location: Boston, MA
Contact:

Re: Spot a detail

Post by KingKaramazov »

Changdao have largest "sword."

Get many women.
"Why are some people all grasshopper fiddlings, scrappings, all antennae shivering, one big ganglion eternally knotting, slip-knotting, square-knotting themselves?  They stoke a furnace all their lives, sweat their lips, shine their ey

User avatar
luukje
Colonel
Colonel
Posts: 553
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2007 5:21 pm

Re: Spot a detail

Post by luukje »

Eevrybody knows chinese have the shortest swords

User avatar
Marksman_Anders
Corporal
Corporal
Posts: 51
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2008 1:12 am

Re: Spot a detail

Post by Marksman_Anders »

[quote=""KingKaramazov""]Changdao have largest "sword."

Get many women.[/quote]
Why did I predict this would come up eventually, lol :twisted:

You are so right Soccerman. Changdao doesn't even counter cavalry that well (which its supposed to do).
gg

Shizle

Re: Spot a detail

Post by Shizle »

Well, as you all know, it's not the size of the sword...it's how you use it!

djdan
N3O Member
N3O Member
Posts: 1660
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2007 3:03 am
Steam: SpanktheMonkey
AOE3 Nickname: djdan

Re: Spot a detail

Post by djdan »

^ Spaking from personal experiences Shizle? LOL ;)
From the OP maker of the OP Sigs, Cleeduz brings maybe some of his best work yet!
Image

User avatar
Soccerman771
N3O Officer
N3O Officer
Posts: 2874
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2008 7:25 am
Location: Sachse, Texas (near Dallas)
Contact:

Re: Spot a detail

Post by Soccerman771 »

Well at least this conversation didn't go the way of alcohol (YET!).
jtackel@hotmail.com

"Do you know how difficult it is to micro Napalm?" - Lazy_Tuga

"This isn't going to work. I've picked a water deck and there isn't even a pond on this map." - Blackadderthe4th

User avatar
RascalJones
N3O Member
N3O Member
Posts: 1275
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2007 1:22 am
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Contact:

Re: Spot a detail

Post by RascalJones »

[quote=""Soccerman771""]Well at least this conversation didn't go the way of alcohol (YET!).[/quote]

I'll drink to that!

StrokeyBlofeld
Clan Leader
Clan Leader
Posts: 2817
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2007 3:36 am
Location: Bristol UK
Contact:

Re: Spot a detail

Post by StrokeyBlofeld »

All 3 are right-handed. :)

Post Reply