Japanese and their Dojos

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MrChristy
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Re: Japanese and their Dojos

Post by MrChristy »

[quote=""StrokeyBlofeld""]I think if they made dojo's more like factories and an age 4 card they would be better. Choose to spawn units or collect resources, that would also help with Japan's 75 vill + lousy shrines eco.[/quote]

Agreed! I think japan definately need some sort of eco boost because there's no way shrines equal the 24 villagers you can't have!

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LaZy
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Re: Japanese and their Dojos

Post by LaZy »

StrokeyBlofeld wrote:
I think if they made dojo's more like factories and an age 4 card they would be better. Choose to spawn units or collect resources, that would also help with Japan's 75 vill + lousy shrines eco.
Couldnt have said it better myself m8

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PS So no1 in the clan is currently actually using them, right?

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Lokelo
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Re: Japanese and their Dojos

Post by Lokelo »

In NR games I use them all the time. I'm not sure if it is really worth it resource wise. I usually ship them in age 3 after I sent a TC. Not sure when that is timewise, I guess 20 min or so. At 40 min, I have a complete army without spending any resources on it. Combined with the large brigade from the dutch consulate (14 musketeers and 4 mortars) I'm good to go.

When the fighting starts I usually use them to supplement my army. But this poses some problems, since the Dojos keep producing soldiers while my soldiers are dying at the front. So i have less population to retrain from FB and Daymios/Shogun and the soldiers from the Dojo are standing around. However, they also saved the game for me from time to time, because they were able to defend my base from sneak attacks. Sometimes I give them waypoints, but a few soldiers walking a long way across the map are usually an easy target.

There is also an upgrade in Age 4 you can buy in the Dojo which makes the production much faster. IIRC 500 each gold, food and wood, may also be 400.

In standard games I usually have one in my deck, but I rarely use it. Only if the game seems to be a stalemate, or the enemy turtles.

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LaZy
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Re: Japanese and their Dojos

Post by LaZy »

Cool, thaqtnks for the info lokelo. I agree, using them in NR games will be positive. Booming for 40 mins and suddenly getting a free army at the same time sounds very good.

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Cyclohexane
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Re: Japanese and their Dojos

Post by Cyclohexane »

I agree with Dojo’s not being useful (unless no rush game), but 7 villagers is not a good comparison. Depending on the unit spawned, an un-upgraded Dojo will grant between 6.0 and 6.8 villager equivalents (depends on the unit, for example, Yumi grant the most since they are wood based).

Now, with the Shogunate Wonder (10% faster), they are worth between 6.7 and 7.5 villager equivalents.

With the Kamidana technology upgrade (25% faster), they are worth between 8.0 and 9.1.

With Shogunate Wonder & Kamidana they are worth 9.2 and 10.5, which is about the same for a factory (6.5 food, 9.2 coin, 11.0 wood and 8.5 food, 11.9 coin, 14.3 wood when upgraded). Of course factories have the advantage of granting a resource immediately and never having to wait if your population space is full. A factory allows you to spend your resources as you see fit. Unless you are making unique cannons. Then if your population space is full, the engineer gets pissed and tears it up and you must start over. At least Dojo’s will wait until pop space is free.

These values are compared with the base rates for wood, berries, and coin. So if you upgrade anything in the market, then the values will decrease (same is true for the factory) since the building output is the same but the villagers are producing more. You can view all these calculations in my “Units – Japan” worksheet of the Quick Reference Guide. It is interactive and you can type in the market upgrades to see what you are really getting in Age 4 (after market upgrades, dojo effectiveness is lowered). To do this, just expand the “+” symbol on the top of the page to unhide the resources available.

Japan may have a 75 villager cap, but the Golden Pavilion grants 15% damage (to total damage, not base, just like fire pit). If you compare that to Natives on the fire pit (same effects really at least for ranged / melee units), it is equivalent to 13 villagers always dancing.

I think BHG had some cool concepts with Japan and limiting villagers to 75 was a good idea. My problem is their slow start. Perhaps a 100 food crate start in addition to a -2 damage nerf to Ag Muskets will put them in the balanced region. Would need testing to find out. If their shrines are boosted to much for the early game, they will be unstoppable late game.
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36drew
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Re: Japanese and their Dojos

Post by 36drew »

[quote=""Navarone_Guy""]Nah. 20 range goons > ERK > shoguns > diamyos > all > noobs > that noob Navarone[/quote]

Nah. Bob Marley > 20 range goons > ERK > shoguns > diamyos > all > noobs > that noob Navarone

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Tatltael
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Re: Japanese and their Dojos

Post by Tatltael »

actually i use japan ALOT. though i never play either of the dojo cards, if you want to supplement your army while having instant gratification (unlike the 3 min wait with the dojos) send an ashigaru or yumi upgrade card in age3, or even the naginta upgrade. dojos are worthless in any context.

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