India in a nutshell

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Macavity
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India in a nutshell

Post by Macavity »

---I believe (although I could be wrong) that I have played India far more than anyone in the clan. I have somewhere near 100 rated wins as India (74 since Nov 29th) and most of those are 1v1. Currently I am 43rd on the ladder for most wins w/India. So I thought I'd share a few tips and tricks I learned along the way.
---First playing India is all about XP. As you know they have an XP penalty, they require 3 herdable animals to reach the level of other civs baseline XP. India leans heavily on their shipments to excel in the game. If there is no herdables on the map, spend the resources (or shipment) to build a sacred field and build at least three cows.
---However if you are playing a herdable rich map, you will reap the benefits of an insane XP rate and receive shipments hand over fist. Really as it stands the viability of a India as good civ relies totally on XP.
---No when it comes to Conculate civs, it depends who you are playing.
Use Britian if... You want spies. They are VERY nice to have forward in Colonial. Only 300 export to get which you should have early. The 5 petards are very effective for India. No one expects India to have them and they are easy to sneak in while a larger battle is going on.
Also nice to have the 10% HP bonus for all troops with Britian.
Use French if... you want artillery backup for your Sepoys and Gurkhas in Colonial. I use the grenadiers a lot in Colonial. Very effective support troop early. Ditch the French once you go Fortress though.
Use Ottomans if... You need extra cavalry. Also you get "real" cannons in Industrial with great bombards. If you make it Industrial get the bombards.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

---India's strength's
~Land maps
~Urumi
~Agra fort is really nice as a TC protector
~Urumi
~They are true a counter civ. All their units counter one thing, and suck against everything else. In other words, it's easier to learn
~Urumi
~wood comes very easy.
~Urumi
~Mahouts and Howdahs are very very good at what they counter (LI/Archers and Cavalry respectivly)
~Urumi
============================================
---India's weaknesses
~water maps (although their fishing boats have an attack with shipment)
~XP penalty
~weak vs HI late (although Sepoy/Rajput/Urumi combo not bad)
~True counter civ. If you have the wrong counter unit, you are toast.
~economy is a bit slow to start (but not as bad as people have made them out to be. You get a free settler with each shipment, and if you have a lot of herdables you will get a LOT of shipments.)
=============================================

---What does my deck look like? And what's my BO?
---This is my land deck.
----------------------
Discovery: Sacred field rickshaw (worth every penny)
---Trading Post rickshaw (India needs the TP's for extra XP and resources.)
---Goraksha- Herdables auto gather +80% XP (OMG the XP rolls in)
---Distributivism - Wood trickle
-----------------------
Colonial: 700 food
~5 Rajput (under rated unit)
~Dravidian Marshall arts (+15 to hand attacks)
~5 Sepoy
~4 Sowar
~Camel attack (camels useless without this)
~Desert terror (camels likewise useless w/o)
~+300 export
~Foreign Logging - medium wood trickle (India's economy's best friend)
***Other colonial options-***
*Mughal architecture - (-20%) wood cost on all buildings
*Call to arms - free irregulars and sentries with every building lost
*Conscript sepoys - receive 2 Sepoys with each shipment instead of one villie
----------------------------------------
Fortress cards
~7 Urumi
~9 Sepoy
~9 Zamburak
~2 Howdahs
~3 Mahouts
~2 Mahouts
~Elephant combat - +15% HP and action damage for elephants
~Tame Elephants - (-10%) cost on elephants
~British East India Company - +10% HP's and action damage for Sepoy Gurkhas and Sowars.
-------------------------------------------------
My build order for land map
Wow this is tough. There a lot of variables. Who are you playing? Do you have herdables? To rush or boom?

basic start- send all villies to food after collecting crates. This of course means you can't build any but you can start aging up before any other civ. In fact it's a rare day when anyone ages up 10 seconds before me.
2: Age with Agra fort close to TC. It works far better protecting your TC than it does as a forward base. You may disagree but while I'm rushing someone I like the thought of it back at home protecting my villies. Besides wood comes so east to India that building a rax forward is not a problem. While aging send everyone to wood and start making villies ASAP!
3: After aging play your first two cards as Foreign Logging (medium wood trickle) and 700 food. (I know everyone wants to play Distributivism in Discovery, but just don't do it. It's not that long of a wait for India. I usually am aging by the time the first shipment is available. You can play it later if needed.)
4: Once you get the food decide on Gurkhas or Sepoys and start pumping them out
5: Get the Trading posts! Wood comes cheap and the extra XP or resources is very nice to have as India.
6: Attack early and often. Micro your troops and gain the edge. It's easier to contain your enemy in Colonial than it is to let them beat you to Fortress (which almost always happens if you don't attack).
====================================
Strategies against different civs
vs China - (8-6 win/loss all time) Ouch is all I have to say. China is a tough match for India. I highly recommend duking it out in Colonial. India does not have a quick answer to the Chinese mortars in Fortress. Siege elephants work great but there are only two of them (w/shipment) and there are far more mortars that that.
vs Japan - (15 - 5 w/l)One of India's easier civs to beat. Send Sowars forward to see what they are building or make very early raid with 2 Sepoys to see what they have, build a counter and attack. Japan's musketeers are no match for Gurkhas in Colonial. Yumi archers die under the Sowar attack. Upgrade your Sowars in Colonial to hunt villies with and use against Yumi Archers as support. Gurkhas +Sowars +grenediars vs Japan
vs Russia (0-4)Don't even try. India can not build enough troops fast enough to beat Russia. I have yet to beat them 1v1
vs Dutch (4 -4) Everyone thinks this is unwinnable for India, I say not so. The key is to attack Colonial and never stop. All Dutch players try to FF which is to your advantage. Early army of Gurkhas and Grenadiers with 4 Sowar easily puts Dutch under pressure. Keep the troops coming, surround their camp and do not let them go Fortress. If for some reason you do, go with Mahouts and Urumi. Get a couple of Siege elephants to take down the banks from range or use your Petards.
vs Britian (6 - 2) Also not as tough as you might think . Use early Gurkha army to keep them honest. However upgrade your Camels quick and start pumping out the Sowars. Upgraded Sowars eat up archers and Gurkhas keep the pikemen honest. Also use the Ottoman Conculate for the extra cav early.
vs India (0-4)Please someone tell me how to beat India lol. I have yet to beat them 1v1.
vs Ottoman (5-2) Survive the rush is all I can tell you. Go with Gurkhas and French Grenadiers. Send all the troops shipments you have and use your irregulars and sentries from your TC. If you survive the first two waves you will win.
vs X-Bow rush Sepoy's, Sepoy's and more Sepoys. Use British Consulate and get Musketeers. Once you are able to start pumping out Sowars do it. Key is to make enough Sepoys early and use the Fort as your sanctuary.
vs Everybody else I honestly haven't played enough against the other civs to get a feel for what to do.
==========================================

~Things they need in the patch
1: 1 more villie to start
2: XP penalty dropped.
3: Auto upgrade for Gurkha's against HI when you go Fortress
or
4: Reduce the food cost of Rajput
5: Fix the Siege Elephants to be better vs Artillery
============================================
In summation India lives and dies with XP. Use your conculate, grab the trading posts and don't be afraid to attack early. Don't play Russia! Urumi are your best friend, Mahouts are your best unit and upgrade your camels!
Last edited by Macavity on Sat Jan 19, 2008 10:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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NEO_CrAz3n
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Re: India in a nutshell

Post by NEO_CrAz3n »

Wow, nicely done and congrats on playing a civ considered UP and doing so well. That's not an easy task and it will pay dividends if you switch to a less UP civ.

We've only played one game (I think) and you whooped me with them. To be honest I was in shock because you were India. I'm pretty sure I was Sioux but maybe Dutch.

Nicely done Mac! I like the vs civs section.
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Re: India in a nutshell

Post by Macavity »

[quote=""NEO_CrAz3n""]Wow, nicely done and congrats on playing a civ considered UP and doing so well. That's not an easy task and it will pay dividends if you switch to a less UP civ.

We've only played one game (I think) and you whooped me with them. To be honest I was in shock because you were India. I'm pretty sure I was Sioux but maybe Dutch.

Nicely done Mac! I like the vs civs section.[/quote]

You were Dutch. I also remember I attacked you early and often. We both made it to Fortress before it ended and I had all 3 TP's (Mongolia map). Not that I remember or anything lol...

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Re: India in a nutshell

Post by NEO_CrAz3n »

Yeah, your memory seems a little foggy there Mac. ;)
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Re: India in a nutshell

Post by Macavity »

Well I watched the recording of it after it was over. Don't think I saved it though...

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Re: India in a nutshell

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I wish I could remember the time I beat Craz.....

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Re: India in a nutshell

Post by Cyclohexane »

--Goraksha- Herdables auto gather +80% XP (OMG the XP rolls in)

Call to arms - free irregulars and sentries with every building lost
The Goraksha card is currently bugged (or pointless) based on some of my tests. If you use this card with a sacred field, it is pointless and offers no bonus. This card only gives you a bonus to livestock not on a sacred field (and a sacred field has a much larger bonus so why waste a shipment). For more details, see the worksheet in my guide: Resource Rate - Sacred Field

I also find call to arms useless. It gives no units when houses are destroyed and only about 8 if a wonder is torn down, not to mention 8 of those guys are pretty pointless. Sounds cool but I cannot see it in actual application.

On you list of fixes, their Wonders could use a boost. I mean, the Tower of Victory gives +15% Hit Points, and +10% Speed to all land units base statistics (not total) for 15 seconds (7:30 min recharge). Now compare that to Japans Golden Pavilion that permanently grants damage, HP, or speed to the total value (not the base) and stacks with auras. The Agra fort needs a damage boost and HP reduction as well.

Anyhow, nice write up. It is interesting how you take out Japs and their slow Colonial economy. I imagine you are going to be a beast to play against in the next patch!
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Re: India in a nutshell

Post by BashUgood »

I've thought about learning india, I've played as them like once and was at a complete loss.. Maybe in the future I'll try again..

One advantage I think is because they're used less then other civs not as many people know how to counter them...
I remember a game I played vs them as Japan.. I saw that my rival made sepoys so I figured I would counter with Naginata, because I figured sepoy were like skirmishers but well ... I was like what just happened...my poor horsies... :cry: and Game Over...
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Re: India in a nutshell

Post by Macavity »

India sub level 40 is a joke. Don't even play any rated games unless you plan to lose or you play NOOBS

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Re: India in a nutshell

Post by Macavity »

[quote=""Cyclohexane""]
--Goraksha- Herdables auto gather +80% XP (OMG the XP rolls in)

Call to arms - free irregulars and sentries with every building lost
The Goraksha card is currently bugged (or pointless) based on some of my tests. If you use this card with a sacred field, it is pointless and offers no bonus. This card only gives you a bonus to livestock not on a sacred field (and a sacred field has a much larger bonus so why waste a shipment). For more details, see the worksheet in my guide: Resource Rate - Sacred Field

I also find call to arms useless. It gives no units when houses are destroyed and only about 8 if a wonder is torn down, not to mention 8 of those guys are pretty pointless. Sounds cool but I cannot see it in actual application.

On you list of fixes, their Wonders could use a boost. I mean, the Tower of Victory gives +15% Hit Points, and +10% Speed to all land units base statistics (not total) for 15 seconds (7:30 min recharge). Now compare that to Japans Golden Pavilion that permanently grants damage, HP, or speed to the total value (not the base) and stacks with auras. The Agra fort needs a damage boost and HP reduction as well.

Anyhow, nice write up. It is interesting how you take out Japs and their slow Colonial economy. I imagine you are going to be a beast to play against in the next patch![/quote]


Thanks for the input! I will be sure to remove this card from my list!

---On another point I personally feel India got the short end of the stick regarding the Consulate nations. Exactly how fair is it that China gets Russia as a choice (Fort and factory) when they are so OP already. India should definitely get Russia as a choice just to balance things out.

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Re: India in a nutshell

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[quote=""Macavity""]---On another point I personally feel India got the short end of the stick regarding the Consulate nations. Exactly how fair is it that China gets Russia as a choice (Fort and factory) when they are so OP already. India should definitely get Russia as a choice just to balance things out.[/quote]

I lamented this in our old forums. India is the only Asian civ to not be able to get a building shipped at all. How fair is the Spanish consulate for Japan? With Gates already multiplying XP by 150%, the extra XP from Spain seems insane. Japan gets advanced arsenal, church, & bank, PLUS resource trickles.

If India had those options, they'd be close to as strong as Japan & China.

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Re: India in a nutshell

Post by Sporting_Lisbon »

Lol Spanish consulate isn't that good. Isolationism is awesome. Dutch is good for the bank too.

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Re: India in a nutshell

Post by Highlander999 »

Great read mate. Although I have never considered using India if I ever do, I'll be sure to use this strat
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Re: India in a nutshell

Post by LaZy »

Maca I also have played a fair bit with India. I would just like 2 say I wish Id have started playing them AFTER your great thread. Good job buddy

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