Rattan Shield (Natives on Yellow River)

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Soccerman771
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Rattan Shield (Natives on Yellow River)

Post by Soccerman771 »

Ok, so I was playing a game last night, me (Russian) vs. Otto. I played like a total noob and resigned after 40 minutes 'cus I just wasn't totally into the game and couldn't seem to make that last push.

Anyway, the guy got the Rattan Sheild natives and that with Hussars was his base army. Totally surprised me that someone with that low a rank would have used that strat as I was expecting Janis/Abus and he used minimal Jans and no Abus.

What would have been a good counter to the Natives he had? Other than the obvious don't let him keep those trade sites....

I made several other mistakes like not scouting really good and not doing my typical hard Strelet/Musk/Cossack rush at the beginning b/c I thought he was going to Jan rush me (incorrect guess). Any help would be appreciated.
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Re: Rattan Shield (Natives on Yellow River)

Post by StrokeyBlofeld »

Did he not rush at all? He went FF? I guess scouting would have told you this, and perhaps scouting would have told you he had a native TP too. Musk/Cossack early on would have done a lot of damage I think.
Not sure with Russia, I've never really played them. Perhaps Nav or Sporting could shed some light on this.

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Re: Rattan Shield (Natives on Yellow River)

Post by emperoral »

I would also say watch the screen top right as it show how many native tp he has could give you an idea if he is going natve. Also did he have any native cards in his deck?

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Re: Rattan Shield (Natives on Yellow River)

Post by RascalJones »

You don't even have to "scout", the score at the top right indicates who has how many trade posts, and native trade posts are indicated differently than trade route posts.

#1 unit to combat natives, is spies, IIRC. Anti-cavalry would be good to, as the Rattan Shields are basically the same as Coyote Runners with more HP and attack. They'll destroy your Strelets.

Basically, his army would have been crushed by pikes, or ranged cavalry. So, cav archers? I know Russia has no pikes, so it would have to be muskets in melee or halbs. Russia vs cav is tough. Probably why he went Hussars & Rattans.

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Re: Rattan Shield (Natives on Yellow River)

Post by RascalJones »

jinx, al.

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Re: Rattan Shield (Natives on Yellow River)

Post by Soccerman771 »

No, he didn't rush at all. First Otto I've played that didn't do that.

I kept him off the natives until about 30 mins into the game. I'm aware of the top right-hand corner, and my micro is decent and can always use improvement. I didn't go after map control with the trade routes like I normally do. He did try the natives at about 15 mins and I held him off. It was amazing how he held off my opricknik raids. I'll put a rec on later this weekend to show how extremely poorly I played.

He had zero native cards in his deck, but did go ATP straight from the start. These are the game stats. I think he's a smurf though. He used a 109 level otto hc. I've beaten serg's and mst serg's otto's easily in vanilla and TWC and this guy only shows to be a lance corp. It was a quick search 1v1, random maps. That said, I did resign with the outcome not fully decided..

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Re: Rattan Shield (Natives on Yellow River)

Post by RascalJones »

Biggest issue is that Russia's Anti-Cavalry sucks. I found that out while trying to play as Russia for awhile.

You didn't make any Cav Archers, though. Could've helped your cause.

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Re: Rattan Shield (Natives on Yellow River)

Post by StrokeyBlofeld »

[quote=""RascalJones""]Biggest issue is that Russia's Anti-Cavalry sucks. I found that out while trying to play as Russia for awhile.

You didn't make any Cav Archers, though. Could've helped your cause.[/quote]

I was just going to add after looking at the stats that cav archers may have been a good idea.....

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Re: Rattan Shield (Natives on Yellow River)

Post by Cyclohexane »

Cav archers are absolutely useless against Rattan Shields. For someone who is low rank, he really knew how to attack a Russian (heavy cav and abstract natives)! Cav archers have bonuses against Heavy Cavalry and Coyote Man / Disciple (not against Abstract Infantry which also includes Eagle Knights, a member of the same class). They could not give all ranged cavalry a bonus against abstract (light) infantry since eagle knights are a member of the same group so they decided to make it so confusing, BHG does not even understand! I made a post on this awhile back somewhere and I think it is a bug based on the stats of other abstract infantry units. Here is a Rattan Shield:

Light Infantry, Native Warrior, Hand Infantry

The only thing that counters light infantry (abstract infantry) is heavy infantry in melee mode. Nothing else gets a bonus.

All ranged cavalry gets a special line item attack for coyotes and Disciples are classified as coyotes. For this reason, ranged cavalry is useful against disciples (as well as HI in melee).

You best bet is what Rascal said, spies. They still do 40 damage in melee against these guys and since they are a melee unit, you should be ok. However, Rattan shields are also just as fast as spies (6.25) so they can run away before you catch them and Hussars eat spies for lunch and ask for seconds. That means Rattan shields basically have no direct counter, especially since they are slightly cheaper than a spy on a VS cost basis.

You have to read the fine print to understand this, but they are a great civ to ally with. Their techs are sweet as well, they have a 50% damage boost available in Age 1 and you get 15 per post.

I do not play Russia very much but it seems with Socket Bayonet (and possibly military drummers, flint lock, paper cartridge), you would not have much trouble. Sure they are weaker than a musket but with fast training, they are so easily replaceable and spawn so fast...

The cav archers would work great against Hussars and with hand infantry, do ok against Rattan Shields (have ranged armor). I would have tried muskets with spies sprikled in with shipped in cav archers. As Russia, you really need to develop an anti-cavalry deck.
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Re: Rattan Shield (Natives on Yellow River)

Post by RascalJones »

I looked at the stats. He had a ton of muskets. His most used unit. Russia's anti-cav is just not very good.

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Re: Rattan Shield (Natives on Yellow River)

Post by I__CHAOS__I »

spies or some fat mercs ;)
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Re: Rattan Shield (Natives on Yellow River)

Post by Navarone_Guy »

Spies are amazing against all natives; they kill most in two hits. Any heavy infantry also works, especially highlanders (ship 9 of em) or swiss pikes. Maybe send in some cossacks to take out any skirms he might use to cover his cavalry.
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Re: Rattan Shield (Natives on Yellow River)

Post by Sporting_Lisbon »

I saw the game stats. Weird, he didn't even get abus :\ And only used 8 jans. Well next time, if he's going all cav like crazy, go full musks with no cossacks and use the opris to take down his native tp. If you want, you can try to trick him by going strelets first and then using the suvorov reforms that turns all the strelets into muskets. You had a better eco than him (I presume) so it should work ;)

If he doesn't get natives and adds abus or quite some janis do what Nav said.

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