Is Japan overated ?

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BashUgood
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Is Japan overated ?

Post by BashUgood »

Hi again all..

I've been using japan mainly with not to great results, and I have a question.
Are they overrated ?
And should I switch over to playing another civ ?

I've seen from the age community stats that Japan is used the most by players @ 69.39% (as of this post).
But their winning % is not that great.

Your thoughts...
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Re: Is Japan overated ?

Post by ZoRPrimE »

Japans great, go over to our TAD strategies section and look at agesanctuary.com too. Also there's more than a few posts where people get into a decent amount of discussion about India. Most people think they are quite good with only a few faults. Very solid civ. Age 2 massing seems to be good. Utilize Ashigeru,Yumi and consulate samurai! Also utilize your cherry orchards to essentially make it very hard to raid you!

I've played Japan but have been concentrating on India for a while now. Almost everyone in the clan is playing Japan a little bit cept maybe Macavity!
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Re: Is Japan overated ?

Post by Navarone_Guy »

The thing about Japan is that they're both unraidable and are completely invincible once they send a few cards for ashigaru. (They can have over 40 attack in age 2.) Naginata are also beasts once they have a few cards.
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Re: Is Japan overated ?

Post by 36drew »

I'd like to see Japan changed so that orchards can't be built within 25 squares of a TC. That said, Japan is a solid civ and can matchup decently with most opponents.

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Re: Is Japan overated ?

Post by NEO_CrAz3n »

[quote=""Navarone_Guy""]The thing about Japan is that they're both unraidable and are completely invincible once they send a few cards for ashigaru. (They can have over 40 attack in age 2.) Naginata are also beasts once they have a few cards.[/quote]

I've found that out every time I've played them. For me, they are the toughest civ to beat.
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Re: Is Japan overated ?

Post by Navarone_Guy »

I think that a good way to fix ashigaru is to make the auras and consulate attack boost NOT stack. Stacking is what makes them OP. Also, cut down the close combat and ashigaru attack cards by 5% each.
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Re: Is Japan overated ?

Post by I__CHAOS__I »

imo japan will be top 3 when china gets nerfed
it's now overshadowed by the strong and easy chinese strats.
yumi are insane as well, not just the musks...
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Re: Is Japan overated ?

Post by KingKaramazov »

Thing with Japan is although they can become very strong if their economy gets going, it is rather slow to begin with. Also, they are rather like the Ottomans in that they have very strong units but their units are not that easy to mass, they are a little bit on the expensive side, especially Naginatas.

In my experience Japan is definitely a competitive civ but they get wth pwned by civs that can easily mass skirmisher units early on, most especially Sioux (wakina ff) and Iro (FP ff). They can also be rather susceptible to a well-executed rush from a civ like the Aztecs. Russia is a tough matchup for them as well, interestingly enough. The China disciple FF of course also is pretty effective against them.
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Re: Is Japan overated ?

Post by ZoRPrimE »

[quote=""Navarone_Guy""]The thing about Japan is that they're both unraidable and are completely invincible once they send a few cards for ashigaru. (They can have over 40 attack in age 2.) Naginata are also beasts once they have a few cards.[/quote]

I discovered this when I tried my first India 1v1 rated game. I fought back the Japanese guys Ashigeru with Mansabdar enchanced Rajputs & Gurkha in age 2. On his reatreat I noticed it had 38 Attack. He came back in Age 3 with more and they were 50 attack. Devastated my army. I kept doing the runaway and rebuild. Didn't lose many villies but it was eventually over as he sieged my wonders and left plenty of defence at home.

Just seems a little bit ridiculous how strong ahigeru are!
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Re: Is Japan overated ?

Post by StrokeyBlofeld »

[quote=""ZoRPrimE""][quote=""Navarone_Guy""]The thing about Japan is that they're both unraidable and are completely invincible once they send a few cards for ashigaru. (They can have over 40 attack in age 2.) Naginata are also beasts once they have a few cards.[/quote]

I discovered this when I tried my first India 1v1 rated game. I fought back the Japanese guys Ashigeru with Mansabdar enchanced Rajputs & Gurkha in age 2. On his reatreat I noticed it had 38 Attack. He came back in Age 3 with more and they were 50 attack. Devastated my army. I kept doing the runaway and rebuild. Didn't lose many villies but it was eventually over as he sieged my wonders and left plenty of defence at home.

Just seems a little bit ridiculous how strong ahigeru are![/quote]

People seem a little upset here, and feel Japan is OP. Let me just mention that out of all 14 civs, 12 civs have a better win % than Japan.
Japan has lost more games than it has won. Yes, Japan is used a lot, but it seems to me that these stats suggest that there is not much OP or UP about Japan.

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Re: Is Japan overated ?

Post by Navarone_Guy »

Really? Maybe other aspects of them need a little boost, but the ugrade cards later on really need a nerf.
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Re: Is Japan overated ?

Post by StrokeyBlofeld »

[quote=""Navarone_Guy""]Really? Maybe other aspects of them need a little boost, but the ugrade cards later on really need a nerf.[/quote]

I agree with the upgrade cards being a little strong, but unit costs are higher, and Japan eco isn't great. They are still slow starters and the whole shrine thing (not getting into that again) is a bit of a let down for 24 vills.

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Re: Is Japan overated ?

Post by Comadevil »

If japan gets started in team games u have to watch out, i have often good unit kill/loss stats in team games with Japan though there are also players who are better than i i think.
In 1v1 i am just to dumb to play Japs. Losing all the time ;)

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Re: Is Japan overated ?

Post by ZoRPrimE »

[quote=""StrokeyBlofeld""]
People seem a little upset here, and feel Japan is OP. Let me just mention that out of all 14 civs, 12 civs have a better win % than Japan.
Japan has lost more games than it has won. Yes, Japan is used a lot, but it seems to me that these stats suggest that there is not much OP or UP about Japan.[/quote]

I just don't want broken game balance. I think everyone can see that a skirm unit should be more effective at anti-infantry than a musketeer. Having upgrades that make the base ranged damage of a musketeer unit higher than achivable by the average skirm unit is something the ruins game balance. It's also likely not what they intended for that unit to be.

General statisic don't really do well at proving very specific points. Raw win statistics include factors such as how long has knowledge been available, how widespread is it, How soon does the imbalance come into play, and who is actually utilizing it. When a civ is the most widely used it also represents the majority of intermediate and below players. General statistics are better at determining the WORST of the broken things than they are other broken things. Japan's inbalance problem with ashigeru doesn't change China's rush coming too fast and strong to compete with. "MR Milo's A China Rush.'
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Re: Is Japan overated ?

Post by StrokeyBlofeld »

[quote=""ZoRPrimE""][quote=""StrokeyBlofeld""]
People seem a little upset here, and feel Japan is OP. Let me just mention that out of all 14 civs, 12 civs have a better win % than Japan.
Japan has lost more games than it has won. Yes, Japan is used a lot, but it seems to me that these stats suggest that there is not much OP or UP about Japan.[/quote]

I just don't want broken game balance. I think everyone can see that a skirm unit should be more effective at anti-infantry than a musketeer. Having upgrades that make the base ranged damage of a musketeer unit higher than achivable by the average skirm unit is something the ruins game balance. It's also likely not what they intended for that unit to be.

General statisic don't really do well at proving very specific points. Raw win statistics include factors such as how long has knowledge been available, how widespread is it, How soon does the imbalance come into play, and who is actually utilizing it. When a civ is the most widely used it also represents the majority of intermediate and below players. General statistics are better at determining the WORST of the broken things than they are other broken things. Japan's inbalance problem with ashigeru doesn't change China's rush coming too fast and strong to compete with. "MR Milo's A China Rush.'[/quote]

I agree with you mostly here, but saying it ruins the game is a bit strong. There are more units that are not accurate, it's not just the Ashigaru.

As for stats, you must go off the information provided, not just speculation of who plays a civ and what other effects can change the %. Without all the information to anylize, the fact remains that Japan have a low win % compared to all the other civs.

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