The Mahout-Gurkha Crunch

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Navarone_Guy
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The Mahout-Gurkha Crunch

Post by Navarone_Guy »

Sounds like some kind of dance or some sort of cereal...

Anyway, here's my guide for my Indian 50% turtle, 50% FF, but 100% funky Indian strategy!

Sorry, that intro was... bad. Anyway, here goes.


General strategy: To make one layer of walls and use gurkhas to pick off guys who are trying to attack you, to semi-FF and spam mahouts, using gurkhas to take care of heavy inf/ranged cavalry.


Crucial cards:

Age 1:
Distributivism + 1 villager
Explorer combat + 1 villager (for very treasure-heavy maps)

Age 2:
700 food + 1 villager
600 gold + 1 villager
5 sepoys + 1 villager
+15% melee attack + 1 villager

Age 3:
350 food for 2 mahouts + 1 villager
1000 food for 3 mahouts + 1 villager
500 food for 7 urumi swordmen + 1 villager
1000 wood + 1 villager
1000 gold + 1 villager
British East India Company + 1 villager
Elephant combat + 1 villager
-10% elephant cost + 1 villager

Age 4:
Team shijavi's tactics
Elephant pop-cost reduction
Other than that, nothing too important, just whatever you have left over.


Age-by-age thingy:

Age 1:
Gather crates, put first 5 vils on wood, put 2 more on wood for a total of 7. Don't make a house yet! Wait till you're at 10 pop and then make a house, but try not to have any idle TC time. It's tricky, but it's possible to pay for all that with 7 vils on wood. Anyway, once you send distributivism, take 2 vils off of wood and put them on food to boost your age time. As soon as you have about 750 food, take 4 vils and send them a little bit forward and start building the agra fort. While you age up, send another vil to make a single wall that mostly encloses your area. You may want to fully enclose it later as you accumulate wood. While aging up, put some vils on gold depending on how many gold treasures you got. Managing your eco is very tricky, but it's not that hard once you get some practice.

Age 2:
Send 700 food and then 600 gold once you get your 3rd shipment, que up 5 gurkhas, and use them and your 2 sepoys from aging up to defend your base. If he attacks more than a little bit, make more gurkhas and delay your fortress a bit more. Keep making vils/houses/blah blah, age up with, I'd recommend the gathering rate + resources wonder. Karni Mata, is it? While aging, put most vils on food, but keep enough on wood to keep making vils and houses and enough on gold to keep making gurkhas.

Age 3:
Now you get rolling. At this point, if you have nearly 1000 food, send 3 mahouts. If you don't, send 2. Use the resources you got from aging up to make houses/a stable/barracks/consulate/gurkhas. Not all of this has to come as once, and I'd recommend getting a consulate first for the British 10% hp bonus. That helps mahouts survive to be healed by your monks. Anyway, with your shipped mahouts and existing infantry, you will want to go on the offensive. Build up a barracks to make your gurkhas elite,, or make a market and some houses, or possibly a stable for more mahouts. (The five from shipments should last quite a while if you pull them back and heal them well.) Your choice. Anyway, Ship 2/3 mahouts again, whichever you haven't sent so far, and attack with your mahouts/gurkhas. Use mahouts to tank, gurkhas to snipe heavy infantry, and pull your mahouts away to be healed when they're below half health or so. Remember, they take damage while escaping too, so don't wait too long. Anyway, if this initial assault of 5 mahouts and a bunch of gurkhas/consulate muskets doesn't work, start booming, setting up a stable/barracks, and start really cranking out mahouts and gurkhas. Maybe send British East India Company to boost your gurkhas/sepoys or elephant combat/cost reduction. It's all you from there.

Age 4:
Completely up to you. Maybe shijavi's tactics to boost your guys some more or the elephant pop-cost reduction card.


I don't have any recs so far, but I've tried this strategy in 1v1 with great success. I've beaten an almost colonel Japanese player and a Dutch major with this, both without much resistance. It seems to be very effective so far.


Tips:

Use your gurkhas to take a few shots at the enemy and draw them to you. If he's not looking, your mahouts can smash him and take out a few guys before he realizes. Just heal your mahouts and you haven't lost anything from that skirmish.

NEVER LEAVE YOUR GURKHAS ALONE! I've had them completely mauled on several occasions cause I sent them out to pick off vils without mahout protection. Without gurkhas, his heavy inf/light cav are free to completely slaughter your mahouts, and gurkhas are far too expensive to replace with the pitiful Indian economy.

Try to place your agra fort near hunts or something up front. Remember, vils can hop into the fort at any time, so it gives you free map control over a potential hunting area. When you're turtling till age 3, this is HUGE.

NEVER DO THIS IN TEAM GAMES! I learned this the hard way. If you turtle and rely on defending yourself to survive, your buddy WILL get killed cause you're too busy protecting yourself.


Hope this guide helped, and enjoy!
Groovy.

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Cyclohexane
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Re: The Mahout-Gurkha Crunch

Post by Cyclohexane »

It does not appear that we have to may Indian players. I stopped playing Brits because I did not like having to defend the first few minutes of every game (or play team games only). India seems to be the same to me except weaker in many areas.

Any recordings from an equally skilled opponent? Do you use your Agra Fort as defense of forward build it?
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Re: The Mahout-Gurkha Crunch

Post by ZoRPrimE »

We actually had 4 of our clan prettydedicated to India until KingK dropped off a couple days ago. Nav,Macavity,Zorp & KingK
My vs. Chinarecording is an equally skilled opponent, if you take into consideration we're both 2nd LT's it's quite an interesting game I think. KingK,Harley, and I have a bunch of Mirror games... Only one game did I come close and that was vs. KK on Siberia. Mirrors aren't real telling about India vs. other civs.

I've Used Agra Fort for both purposes, it's really map and opponent dependant. For early rusher civs I have it closer to home and some degree of wall up too. For civs I can compete with thier start I'll put it Forward on the right map. On Honshu I stick it inbetween the two natives and wall up.

The guy who wrote "my little guide to India" Has a decent vs. Otto record on Honshu here!

I think India is just a few patch tweaks from being a very competitive civ.

Most the high level player records don't seem to account for a fast rush for some reason really high rank players have tons of games with late rushes?? At least the ones on Agesanctuary do.

Harley and Macavity are our only two members who have braved rated games with them. I've played them in team games but not 1v1 rated yet.
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Re: The Mahout-Gurkha Crunch

Post by NEO_CrAz3n »

Macavity plays India very well. I played My Dutch vs his India last night.

It may have been a better game if I didn't lag (started again in age3 as usual) but he played them very well and would have won anyway. I had no lag at all in age2.

He chose Mongolia as the map and I raced to get the buffalo on the map but he got more.

there was some skirmishing in age2 but I was going for a delayed FF and hoped to get to Industrial in under 20. It worked. I got to Industrial arounf 19, not long after he made it to fortress, but his upgrades and taking the trade route (and upgrading it) won it. His age3 army beat my less-upgraded age4 army after a lot of skirmishing. It was a pretty good game. He also used natives so I was attacked from 2 sides. He definitely had map control and even with 5 banks and a factory I couldn't hold him off.

I was very unhappy with how my Elmeti performed vs his infantry, I should have either raided with them or gone after the trade route, or gone falcs instead.

I thought for sure his army would run when my 3 falcs and a heavy cannon rolled out with cover fire from my fort vs infantry and a few ele's but he pushed through and kept reinforcing.

GG Mac
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Re: The Mahout-Gurkha Crunch

Post by RascalJones »

I play India, but am best not used as an example other than an example of how NOT to play. Although, I do think I'm getting better.

That said, I'd love to see a rec of this. And I'm not one to watch many recs. ANYTHING that would help my India game would be welcome.

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Re: The Mahout-Gurkha Crunch

Post by Navarone_Guy »

Here's a good rec of me going against Zorp's sowar raiding. It works quite well and the game is over somewhat quickly, although my age-up time is slowed considerably by me being forced to get 5 sepoys for his cavalry.

Edit... what the hell? I can't post .ageYrec games on the forums at all!
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Re: The Mahout-Gurkha Crunch

Post by NEO_CrAz3n »

Did you try to post it here or in TAD rec games? Posting is only allowed in there and Members Only. Not in strategy although it really should be. I'll go check.
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Re: The Mahout-Gurkha Crunch

Post by Navarone_Guy »

Oh, ok. Thanks. I'll post it there.
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Re: The Mahout-Gurkha Crunch

Post by ZoRPrimE »

I've added one modification to this strat since I had a India mirror rush me harder/faster. He musta did something to get a large food treasure but he also was more efficient with villies.
So on average starting crate maps I send 1 or 2 villie to hunts instantly by the time my starting crates are gathered I make sure it's just 1 villie on food unless I'm already at 10/10 villagers queued up or Japan where you get 15 starting pop and can build a house after or during age up!

For faster age up finding wood treasure is as good as finding food treasures as you can divert a villie for every 80-100ish wood you get. Once you have 800 food make sure your villie blance for wood is good again!

I've played the upgraded explorer card to get 375 food and later a similar high coin/wood treasure had to skip first wood trickle but in this instance it mostly paid off.

Thanks for posting strat it's quite effective I've also found myself in position to skip the foodshipment on certain maps/situations.
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Re: The Mahout-Gurkha Crunch

Post by Sporting_Lisbon »

Sounds great! Could you say against what civs you just shouldn't do it at all?

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Re: The Mahout-Gurkha Crunch

Post by Navarone_Guy »

Uhhh... Sioux, Dutch, Iroquois, China... yeah. If you're against them, use a real civ.

Other than that, just don't use it in a team game.
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Re: The Mahout-Gurkha Crunch

Post by Sporting_Lisbon »

Actually why wouldn't it work against iros? You can make the agra fort closer to the tc in case he rushes and in fortress eles should do fine against his army.

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Re: The Mahout-Gurkha Crunch

Post by Navarone_Guy »

What I meant by that is that India is so bad, no matter what you do with them, they WILL lose to top civs. Iroquois was just an example of those top cis.
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Re: The Mahout-Gurkha Crunch

Post by Sporting_Lisbon »

Oh... Ok then. I'm a little bit more positive than that, but still I'm gonna wait for the patch to use India ^^

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Re: The Mahout-Gurkha Crunch

Post by ZoRPrimE »

Well I'd definately wait for the patch for rated games. Sure was fun to practice with for a while. Quite a freaking struggle, there's no real food/wood BO options that are practical either. You pretty much always need Food/Wood/Gold to get any reasonable strat going. You can be have on Food for the FF strats though.
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