Japan, an open discussion

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Japan, an open discussion

Post by I__CHAOS__I »

I'm gonna give Japan a try as they seem to be an all around good civ

Can you share your experiences about the different aspects of japan?

The info I'm looking for:

* which cards are good/essential
* how important are the shrines really? Does it pay off to build em in the middle of the map (and risk loosing em) just to have 4 animals on it?
* which wonder do you use for age II and III? and why?
* strengths/weaknesses?
* good/bad match-ups & why
* early consulate, is it worth the investment? which ally?
* which unit-combo's do you use in II and III?
* any kamikaze strats?

thanks 8)

This will also help anybody who wants to try japan in the future.
Wisdom is the supreme part of happiness. - Sophocles
Happiness belongs to the self-sufficient. - Aristotle
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Re: Japan, an open discussion

Post by Comadevil »

Cards: All unit upgrade cards, Mountain Warrior (for treasure heavy maps, doubles res of a treasure), 2 orchard rickshaw (=9000 food), Daimyo cards, Economy upgrade cards (at least in team games), Chonindo, 300 woord, 4 villagers, 3&5 fisher boats (to be continued)

Shrines are important because u have a 75 vill limit and animals boost them by far. On herdable heavy maps (texas, Mongolia etc.) get them first before u hunt after treasures

Large hunts gather at .08
Small hunts gather at .07
Sheep gather at .11
Llama gather at .13
Cows gather at .14
Elephants count as two gatherers but only gather at .08 (Elephants suck for shrines)
Base gather rate is .07 for food, .05 for wood/coin, .34 on XP.

Navajo sheperds and team Fatten Faster will increase the livestock gather rates accordingly.

Only the Base gather right on shrines is affected for bonus upgrades.

Toshugu Shrines gathers at .35 for everything and .93 for XP. Having herds or hunts on toshugu does not increase their rates. Hunts/Herds are static in terms of gather rates. Toshugu increases shrine effectivity by a multiplier of 2.33. This is rougly equivalent to 5.36 villagers after you have 20 shrines. It also gives 20 pop space.

The age1 shrine boosting card gives 1.5 gather rate. With 20 shrines + Toshugu that will be worth the equivalent of about 2 villagers. The card sucks, don't use it.

The XP Shrine card is awesome, use it and XP boom.

The last upgrade increases it by 300% or a multiplier of 4, roughly equivalent to 10 settlers with 20 shrines + toshugu (excluding toshugu bonus).

FU Shrines without hunts will be worth about 17 settlers.
FU Shrines with Herdables is worth about 26 settlers.

NOTE: You cannot shrine boom. You do not gather enough resources through shrines. Do not use Toshugu unless you want Export and pop space and are building a consulate in age1, preferably for Spain's XP trickle and pikemen to complement Yumi.

Japan gets double unit shipments and lots of XP through Gates and Shrine XP card, it is better to use this to get Rice Paddy boosting cards and Royal mint and crap like that. Your economy will be great, better than Euro, if you can take advantage of the XP and invest all of it that you get into some rice paddies.

Or you can invest all your XP and Export into military and just kill your opponent...
Early consulate (Age I) doesn't really payoff only if u want to make shrine spam (with portuguese)

In Age II u should get the consulate already when u have the wood left. in 1v1 u will have to take Japanese (+10% attack), developing bushido is also nice (training 10 batches intead of 5), in team games dutch also pays off (goold trickle + u can get arsenal (without advanced techs, advanced techs can be developed in Golden Pavillion), bank and church)

Wonders: Torrii + Golden Pavillion + Shogunat
or GP + SHogunat

in 1v1 u have to go to GP usually because it also boosts ur military, though Torrii are also nice, depends on situation

Weaknesses: cannot hunt, only berries though u have to consider u don't have to micro the hunters and berry vills don't have to walk to the next hunt, no ff, only semi-ff, weak late economy because of vill limit, though boostable with economy cards

Unitcombo: Usually Ashigaru and Yumi
Last edited by Comadevil on Thu Dec 13, 2007 5:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Japan, an open discussion

Post by luukje »

Age 1: as ypu only have 2 villager card, you can quite easely play another age 1 card. I play 300 wood (more shrines, barracks), the japanese advanced trading post (1 TP wagon and TP'S to 200 wood), on heavy treasure maps the cards for monks.
AGE 2: military cards: yumi, ashigaru and their combat cards. 600 wood. 2 cherry orchards is a good card if you want to fight all the way in colonial and think you can end the game before having to build rice paddies. The age 2 daymo is good if you have the skill to micro him (he dies and cant be resurrected, so keep him out of enemy fire). 600 wood is always good.
AGE3: the miltary cards for ashigaru and yumi, The combat card for naginata. 1000 wood, can be sended twice, one of the ebst japanese cards. Dojo's I dont know. They are like 5 villager shipment in age 3. After all yourother cards have been send maybe.
Age 4, the shogun!

Shrines, I build them everywhere when Im going to aggressive myself and want to take map control. When you expect to be defending more it's a bit risky. You dont want to find yourself housed all the tim. Theyre output is bigger with herdables! I like to see them as normal houses and try to keep 15 pop free before buidling new ones.

Wonders, almost all japan wonders are good.
The SHRine is good for economy and pop space.
The Torii gates are giving you experience like spain and a barracks wagon
Those are my age 2 wonders
The shogunate is great to, most people use it in age 3
The arsenal wonder is great to, when you are laming ashigaru

Strenth: solid basicunits, all pretty good: ashigaru, yumi and naginata. The great thing about japan is you can choose any of these unit and use their upgrades to really spam just one unit. Shogun + consulate isolation + combat card works for all units.
One type of infantery + cavalry is always good combo.
When you expect xbow+cavalry I go ashigaru (French, Germans, Brits, ports, spain)
When yu expect strong skirmisher or only musket I go Yumi (Otto, Dutch, Chinese, India, Russia, Sioux, )

Weakness: can be slow starters, average economy early on - you need to win your battles, limited food (1 orchard and a few berry bushes) so you need to build rice paddies faster then your opponent.

The flaming arrow isnt so strong, but is has easy micro, better than falconets.
Dragoon type unit is a bit special, they have bigger range, bigger multiplier but weak hitpints and basic attack and are quite pricy.
Samuarai are doppels, with the same strengths and weaknesses.

Consulate: can be worth it, when you are going with shrine wonder, you get 300 export.

Kamikaze: sohei natives for 500 gold, combined with a shipment of tercios from consulate and some 10 ashigaru can take down a base quickly or going all samurai against some FF.

I will post a version of my new japan strat soon, watch out,lol
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Re: Japan, an open discussion

Post by StrokeyBlofeld »

I always look for hunts on the edge of maps for my shrines, that way they are out of the way of the main battle area to start with and have little effect on map control meaning they are less likely to be raised.

Age up wonders, I tend to use tori gates in team games first, as my standard tends to be be shipping 5 ashi/yumi twice while my rax is built at the FB. If I'm playing 1v1 then I may use the arsenal wonder. 2nd age up is often shogunate or shrine wonder.

I always try to get a consulate up by around the 9 min mark and my first ally is Dutch for the bank. After I get that it depends what the game is going like but Bushido with Japan is always a strong choice.

I'm really still trying to work out build orders and strats for Japan, so my comments are very basic I'm afraid.
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