Navarone_Guy's guide to Japan

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Navarone_Guy
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Navarone_Guy's guide to Japan

Post by Navarone_Guy »

Navarone_Guy's Guide to Japan


I've had the chance to play Japan for a while, and I really like it. Their cav aren't crap like Indian camels, but they're not OP like China. A very enjoyable civ to play with many different strategies.

Basically, the standard thing to do is spam ashigaru musketeers to start in age 2, adding in yumi archers if necessary, and later naginata riders.

Important cards:

Age 1
Mountain Warrior (for treasure-heavy maps)
Team Chonindo (for team games)
Trickle card of all resources
3 fishing boats (for water maps)
+25% fishing boat gathering (for water maps)

Age 2
5 ashigaru musketeers
5 yumi archers
ashigaru attack
yumi attack
2 cherry orchards
5 fishing ships (for water maps)
+30% fishing boat gathering (for water maps)
2 age 2 warships, whatever they're called (for water maps)
diamyo
team 1 castle (for team games)

Age 3
dojo
dojo
diamyo
naginata rider hitpoints
bloody harvest
way of the bow
close combat
team 2 castles (for team games)

Age 4
shogun
team cheaper unit upgrades (for team games)


Basic strategy:

Age 1

Build your orchard as close to your TC as you can. Make as many shrines as you can near hunts, setting them to food for the remainder of age 1. Split up your monks and send them scouting, teaming up if necessary if there's a tough treasure. Of course, keep all vils on the orchard. For your first card, I'd recommend: 3 fishing boats if it's a water map, team chonindo if it's a team game, mountain warrior if there are a lot of big resource treasures, or the resource trickle card if there aren't any of those three instances. Other cards may be better, or you may want to save it for age 2. It's a toss-up. As soon as you get 800 food, task about 4 vils on the 1.5x exp wonder. You can do other wonders, but I find that one the best for age 2.

Transition, age 1 -> age 2

Switch about 4 vils onto wood, switch your shrines to wood.

Age 2

NEVER STOP MAKING VILS. Build a barracks between your base and his and try to make some mischief with your free samurai. Put the guys who were on the wonder onto gold, ship 5 ashigaru and then again once you get another shipment, then send ashigaru attack after that, as your 4th card. If it's a water map, you may want to send 5 fishing ships or 2 warships. If it's a team game, maybe send team 1 castle. If you have extra wood, throw down a stable and consulate to diversify your army. At this time, your orchard is probably running low, so you might want to send the 2 orchard card. Spam ashigaru out of that barracks! If he is making infantry, you may want to throw in yumi. If he is spamming light infantry, then you probably want to throw down a stable and make some naginata riders. If he's turtling, pick off vils with your ashigaru, as they can kill vils in 5 hits with the attack card in play. Send the diamyo or maybe yumi attack later, or age to 3 if you have the resources. I'd recommend aging up with the shogunate. You get a free diamyo, who is VERY helpful in battle.

Age 3

This is where you have to take over. It's really a toss-up depending on the situation. Send naginata hitpoints and close combat, maybe the two dojos. Just play it however the situation demands. However, don't use diamyos in battle unless necessary. They only have 780 hp and 39 attack and are expensive to retrain. They give a 10% attack bonus to all nearby allies, though.

Age 4

Send shogun tokugawa. He's an animal, with 180 base attack and 2250 base hp. He can be retrained for 332 gold and gives a 20% hp bonus to all nearby units. He can 1 hit KO most infantry.


Ok, now that we've covered the basic strategy, here are some tips.

The monk, when the treasures are drained and you have enough shrines, makes a GREAT meatshield. Put him into melee mode and have him charge the enemy, absorbing damage your normal army doesn't have to take.

Naginata riders are too expensive and fragile to spam and let die. Send them behind where you suspect the enemy is going to attack in the fog of war, and then charge into their light infantry while their cavalry and heavy infantry are fighting your non-cavalry army.

Diamyos and the shogun are best left behind your army in stand ground stance. They are safe, can train units, and provide the aura to your army without getting bumped off by some pesky pikemen. They're too expensive to be expendable, although the shogun is an absolute beast in battle. Just keep an eye on him.


Hope this helped!
Groovy.

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kingchrisII
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Re: Navarone_Guy's guide to Japan

Post by kingchrisII »

hey, I really think that the 4 vills card is a must in a Japan deck. Severe was wondering why i had a sudden boom in age 2 at 6 mins, and it was because I sent 4 vills from saved age up and then 4 vills when I got my next shipment.
Just a thought.

Navarone_Guy
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Re: Navarone_Guy's guide to Japan

Post by Navarone_Guy »

Well, that severely weakens your early colonial army, and that's when it matters most.

4 villagers is 400 food worth, right? Food is the most quickly gathered resource, too.

5 ashigaru, on the other hand, is worth 400 food and 200 gold, also bypassing the need for a barracks and train time. I never get 4 villagers, I don't even put it into my deck. If you REALLY need an economic boost, I'd suggest sending the 5 fishing boat card. That's 500 wood, the slowest gathered resource. They're also nearly unraidable, and it bypasses the 200 wood for a dock.
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Re: Navarone_Guy's guide to Japan

Post by severebeating »

[quote=""Navarone_Guy""]Well, that severely weakens your early colonial army, and that's when it matters most.

4 villagers is 400 food worth, right? Food is the most quickly gathered resource, too.

5 ashigaru, on the other hand, is worth 400 food and 200 gold, also bypassing the need for a barracks and train time. I never get 4 villagers, I don't even put it into my deck. If you REALLY need an economic boost, I'd suggest sending the 5 fishing boat card. That's 500 wood, the slowest gathered resource. They're also nearly unraidable, and it bypasses the 200 wood for a dock.[/quote]
I am not arguing but continuing to question...

I am always a bit skeptical about the strict initial cost comparisons. In my opinion, the comparison of the cost of an eco unit vs. military unit is not a precise compariosn. An eco unit CONTINUOUSLY generate res. for the remainder of the game. A military unit is only useful if it happens to be engaged at the right place against the right counter & is almost never engaged 100% of the time. On the other hand, Nav I know that most likely you will have your military in that situation!! :)
The game that is mentioned above is a 2v2 with all players playing Japs. Three of us play a "conventional" wisdom of following your guide, while one player increases eco by 20% (+/_) over the other players. (i.e. 24 vils vs. 20 vils). I could not tell that the military power was diminshed significantly as a result of this play. Perhaps it is something that is more useful (AND less risky) in a team game vs. a 1v1???

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Re: Navarone_Guy's guide to Japan

Post by KingKaramazov »

Well the point is when you send those 5 ashigaru you save more resources than 4 villagers actually cost, so in essence you are getting 5 ashigaru as well as more than enough resources to make those 4 villagers. When you send 4 villagers, you're just getting four villagers ans saving 400f, which is a resource that gathers very quickly anyway.

You always want to prioritize shipments that save you resources which are more difficult / slower to acquire (gold, wood, or export).
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severebeating
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Re: Navarone_Guy's guide to Japan

Post by severebeating »

KK, Thanks, but I get the simple initial comparison. I just think there is more to it than that. For instance, you could compare the cost of a fort vs. an equivalent res. cost of vils. But the fort might just sit there the rest of the game (strategic issues aside) while vils continue to generate res. I don't think the initial comparison is necessarily "apples & apples".

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Re: Navarone_Guy's guide to Japan

Post by Comadevil »

well severe, i don't get your point. If i ship a military shipment, i want to use it right away and i just don't want them to sit around, because idle military is almost always a waste of res except if u keep some pikes in the back of ur base to secure it against raiding. Else i would ship an eco shipment which boosts my mills, plants or whatever

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Re: Navarone_Guy's guide to Japan

Post by severebeating »

Don't you normally accumulate military before an attack?

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Re: Navarone_Guy's guide to Japan

Post by Navarone_Guy »

To be honest, not really... I mostly make long-range light infantry or cavalry, so I pick off vils here and there while I build up my army for an attack. I also take crackshots at his army.
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Re: Navarone_Guy's guide to Japan

Post by StrokeyBlofeld »

I think the point severe is trying to get at is if you can send 4 vills, and make your military with your resources instead of cards without being disadvantaged, then your eco is better off.

I think he is comparing the time it takes to make those 4 villagers against the time it takes for the card to come in relation to the resources they will gather in that allotted time offset against the cost diffference between 4 vills and 5 military units.

Anyone follow this......? lol.

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Re: Navarone_Guy's guide to Japan

Post by Comadevil »

I understood Severes point quite clearly but it isn't really valid for me.

If i use a military shipment, i gain an instant advantage over my opponent and an instant advantage u have to use (almost) instantly else it isn't an advantage anymore.
If i want an advantage on the middle or long run i use a vills shipment or an eco boost shipment.
This is always the decision u have to make first: instant advantage or advantage on the middle/long run.

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Re: Navarone_Guy's guide to Japan

Post by severebeating »

It is always fun when you can stimulate some thought/discussion. (!) You are absolutely right Coma. You have to make the call which way to go, eco or military. Perhaps this is one of my own strategic weaknesses in playing as I too often focus on eco first. My only (attempted) point is that the initial cost of a unit for comparative purposes is a starting point, not necessarily the entire decision. There is the time involved to generate 4 vils vs. 5 ashis, the contributing effect of both (whether instant eco or strategic military advantage), & of course your very valid point of overall focus & strategy.

Thanks for input.

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Re: Navarone_Guy's guide to Japan

Post by neilkaz »

If you send 4 vils your economy will be 4 vils superior for a long time unless vils die due to having less military (the lack of the 5 Ashis) or unless you have to experience idle TC time if it is an absolute must to make military instead of a constant vils from the TC, or unless these 4 extra vils end up raided and running or hiding (perhaps due to the lack of 5 extra Ashis)

If we assume an average but conservative effective gathering rate of 0.6/sec for a vil we can see that a vil gathers more than the 100 food he costs in about 3 minutes.
(180sec x 0.6/sec =108)

5 Ashis cost 600 res and can be a very effective addition to your fighting force.

However, when you consider that 4 extra vils gather about 144 res/min total (more if hunting) if you can keep these 4 extra vils alive for more than 4 minutes you'll have gathered those 600 res and your economy will continue to be gathering about 144 res/min (more as you can afford upgrades) as the game continues (at least until player(s) age up further and add new TC's)

But there's one other factor to consider. Perhaps the addition of 5 Ashis allows you to win a critical battle near your enemy and then raid and kill a few of his vil and/or force several to run and hide or escape to a new gathering spot (again not gathering for a while enroute). In this case, you've damaged the enemy economy somewhat and also his military. If you damage his economy, your's is likely to be ahead of his.

.. neilkaz ..

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Re: Navarone_Guy's guide to Japan

Post by blayzer13 »

i agree most with your last paragraph Neil, the militaristic advantage, in my opinion is the most important, without a strong military your villies are skrewed regardless. if your can put your army beyond your enemies and can properly defend your villies you will be much better off. however if your are confident in your smaller army laking the 5 units (saying units cuz i like to send yumi rather than ashi) then feel free to use the 4 vill card. i would say the 4 vill card is a gamble, it can be used to keep up with a stronger economy or it can weaken your army to the point of the card being used in vain.

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Re: Navarone_Guy's guide to Japan/Consulate

Post by Comadevil »

Some additional information about the japanese allies in the consulate:

Ports (Bonus -15% cost reduction for buildings including wonders for ageup)
This ally is seldom used except if u get an early consulate in Age1, so u can age up faster and spam shrines for 103 wood. Luigi is toying around with this strat, i tried it against Chaos but u need to practice it else u get housed very fast, as i did. Else ports are of no use to Japan

Spain (Bonus +0.8 XP/s trickle)
I use spain only as allies in team games as first ally to get cards faster. Also they have Merchant Marine which halves the time for the delivery of a shipment.

Dutch (Bonus +0.8 Gold/s trickle)
This i use as second ally, because Dutch can provide u also an arsenal (it is not advanced, advanced arsenal techs u get in the Golden Pavillion), a bank and a church. Also nice when u run low on gold.

Japanese (+10% Land Unit Attack)
In 1v1 i get Japan as first ally because usually u have some colo fights (Japan hasn't a good FF) and the +10% Land Unit Attack can make a difference in the fight. Usually i stay with them except if i am running low on gold or i just want to get the benefits from the dutch.
In team games u have to decide if u take spain or/and dutch first or take japan. Depends if teams are building up or get into a fight in Age2

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