What Happened to the Spanish?

[Kaiser_von_Nuben]

Hi everyone. Does anybody know why no one plays Spain anymore? I am thinking about playing them a little more, simply because I looked at Age Community and saw they only get played in a meager 5% of all games on TAD. I'm guessing people started abandoning them when ESO took away the OP Age III 5 + 4 lancer shipments and nerfed the shipment times (ie, insta-falcs).

I am convinced that Spain can be a formidable colonial fighter. I know from experience with the Germans that xbow/pike is among the best combos in the game if micro'd correctly, and Spain has some of the best cards in the game to make this combo really deadly. I have seen some Post-Patch Flooky games with Spain and he just pwns with a double rax xbow/pike mass. You can boost Spanish pikes and rods with a card, plus make them train instantly with the archaic infantry training and fencing school cards in Age 2. I don't think any other civ can get insta-troops in colonial.

I welcome everyone's tips and stories about Spain these days. What do you all think about them? Are they worth learning well? It seems with muskets, pikes, xbows, skirms, dragoons, hussars and rods, they have access to virtually any strat you can think of. Are they just boring? Or is there some other reason no one plays them anymore?

[Tatltael]

im still very fond of spain, as poorly as i play them im not really sure why nobody plays them to be honest, i think maybe it has something to do with the lack of a 400 wood politician? dunno. in any case you can do a nice little boom with them in age 2, with the 4+5 villager shipments you can get instantly ;

maybe im missing something as well, cause rod+lancer or rod falc doesnt usully fail for me

[Blackadderthe4th]

I've messed around with the Spanish archaic rush and it works quite well. The problem however comes late game, they don't have anything special, no powerful spammable unit or even decent Royal Gaurd level unit. Their late game is just average and this is quite boring, at least I find it is. Well this stops me playing as them much but I imagine 99% of players stopped because their ff was nerfed.

[36drew]

Spain is fun but they still are very weak (possibly the weakest civ).

[huGGy]

Spain FF is still very good. You only feel the nerv at a level major+. Below that it's just not important if there are 10 or 11 pikes and rods are defending your cannons.

This 13 helbs FF is very strong as well. Don't know about colonial fighting, but i think it's hard cause you need time until you can spam these troops instantly. You need time to get the cards and - more difficult - time to get your eco up. But what do I know, i never played them.

[Tatltael]

i dont understand why they are weak though. they can still do a nice musk double rax, and lategame they get LANCERS! which eat any kind of infantry unit. so all you need there is some skirms/goons

or rod falc? which is just crazy. 6.6 speed rods running around mass falc is crazy

[Kaiser_von_Nuben]

[quote=""Tatltael""]i dont understand why they are weak though. they can still do a nice musk double rax, and lategame they get LANCERS! which eat any kind of infantry unit. so all you need there is some skirms/goons

or rod falc? which is just crazy. 6.6 speed rods running around mass falc is crazy[/quote]

Yes, those lancers used to kill me when I rushed Spain with Russia. They devoured Russian muskets like nobody's business. And strels...it was pure slaughter. I suppose late game--with lancers at Royal Guard Level (Garrochista)--along with those attack-boosting missionaries you could get a pretty strong force together.

I do remember one late-game battle with Spain I had as the Germans. He had lancers and I had doppels... the doppels carved them up But if they hadn't been upgraded it might have been different. That caballeros card gives them a 4X modifier against ALL infantry. That is pretty sweet.

[I__CHAOS__I]

spain has nothing funky to make it fun enough
rods are weak, the faster shipment rate is quickly neutralized ...

[Jack85]

I use to play Spain now and there is a rush which is quite good with faster shipments 6rods with dog built then 8 pikes to destroy buildings as house (BIS) and then go colonial.

This archaic colonial warfare with archaic training and fencing school is good too. To my mind this strat is efficient even if it is a defensive strat cause in early game you cant have a lot of millitary.

I think FF is a good way (Lancers pikes and rods with canons) and you have skirmishers and goons too.

[Tatltael]

rod + xbow > musk hussar / xbow hussar

rods arent awful, just think of them as warclubs with less siege
and if you send the advanced arsenal thing, they get 6.6 speed. thats when the fun begins :twisted:

[Macabee]

[quote=""Kaiser_von_Nuben""]You can boost Spanish pikes and rods with a card, plus make them train instantly with the archaic infantry training and fencing school cards in Age 2. I don't think any other civ can get insta-troops in colonial.
[/quote]

Um, Aztecs.
Mac

[Kaiser_von_Nuben]

[quote=""Macabee""][quote=""Kaiser_von_Nuben""]You can boost Spanish pikes and rods with a card, plus make them train instantly with the archaic infantry training and fencing school cards in Age 2. I don't think any other civ can get insta-troops in colonial.
[/quote]

Um, Aztecs.
Mac[/quote]

Ah yes... fertility dance with fencing school. Come to think of it, the Russkies come pretty close with two fencing school cards. Insta-strels and insta-muskets... arrrgh !!

[Macabee]

[quote=""Kaiser_von_Nuben""][quote=""Macabee""][quote=""Kaiser_von_Nuben""]You can boost Spanish pikes and rods with a card, plus make them train instantly with the archaic infantry training and fencing school cards in Age 2. I don't think any other civ can get insta-troops in colonial.
[/quote]

Um, Aztecs.
Mac[/quote]

Ah yes... fertility dance with fencing school. Come to think of it, the Russkies come pretty close with two fencing school cards. Insta-strels and insta-muskets... arrrgh !![/quote]

and the faster warhut unit card for the aztecs


Mac

[Kaiser_von_Nuben]

Speaking of Aztecs, what build order would you suggest for Spain to beat their rush? With Germans I use doppels, 9 xbow and uhlans in colonial, but Spain doesn't get free cav, doesn't have a LI card and hussars are expensive early. Rods seem like a good counter to coyotes, but 19 maces would kill them in seconds. How about a lancer FF with a defensive tower (the Governor)? Aztecs only have infantry, and lancers crush all infantry, even muskets. But would it take too long to get to fortress against that rush?

Does anyone have any thoughts about the Spain v. Aztec matchup? Yesterday I did a bunch of tests with colonial warfare, but never ran into an Aztec... I would not use pike/xbow against them.

[Kaiser_von_Nuben]

I did some good colonial Spain testing over the weekend. I did FF once and beat the Aztecs, but my opponent said it was not his main civ. Either way, lancers do a number on all Aztec units; add in a few skirms and the pumas go down pretty easy.

Today I started wondering about what Spain can do in a team match. Does anyone use the unction card? Would it make sense to train a few missionaries in colonial to take advantage of that damage aura? How much of a boost does it give? Does it affect your ally, too? I'm curious about this. I've seen that in most team games the Spanish player goes all-Hussar or rod/pike for anti-cav duties. In either case, some attack-boosting missionaries would likely be a nice perk. What is your impression?