Best ways to hold a russian mass unit rush

Talk about Strategies and share your Replays here

Moderators: Global Moderator, Age Moderator

User avatar
EndlessPower
Lieutenant
Lieutenant
Posts: 133
Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2008 3:00 pm

Best ways to hold a russian mass unit rush

Post by EndlessPower »

Ok, yep, here I am again making a thread about russian rushes. As you can see russia is my number #1 enemy :P

I wonder if you guys have some "secret weapons" to use against those russian guys making 2-3 blockhouses and spamming units madly.

What's the key to beat mass? Everyone knows CAV beats russia, but have the german for exemple, Uhlan's HP is low and can't stand a big unit mass.
Any tips?

Note that this time I'm not asking for particular counter-rush strategies, just something more generalistic like a good card to get in these cases, a special unit, etc.

HuggyPierre
N3O Officer
N3O Officer
Posts: 1738
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2008 4:06 pm

Re: Best ways to hold a russian mass unit rush

Post by HuggyPierre »

Germans do pretty fine if you start with xbows/pikes (for free cossacks) and free uhlans and switch to uhlans later on. Uhlans do have low hp, but great attack and if you massed uhlans they eat everything russia can effort (in age 2).

With aztecs some kind of turtle (10WP asap) and coyotes/maces should work. Try to send 2 warhuts as well (russia can't really siege) and then your eco > his.

User avatar
Soccerman771
N3O Officer
N3O Officer
Posts: 2874
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2008 7:25 am
Location: Sachse, Texas (near Dallas)
Contact:

Re: Best ways to hold a russian mass unit rush

Post by Soccerman771 »

As a Russian player, the thing that gets me most of the time is....towers believe it or not. Other than that, boom and try to get the fb down as soon as possible.
jtackel@hotmail.com

"Do you know how difficult it is to micro Napalm?" - Lazy_Tuga

"This isn't going to work. I've picked a water deck and there isn't even a pond on this map." - Blackadderthe4th

User avatar
36drew
Honorary Officer
Posts: 2713
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2007 6:22 am

Re: Best ways to hold a russian mass unit rush

Post by 36drew »

Something isn't right if your uhlans aren't pwning russia. They pwn everything russia can throw at you in colonial -- they even are okay vs. russias crappy muskets. Massed uhlan plus some xbows to pick off their HI should win. Germany > Russia.

Navarone_Guy
Honorary Officer
Posts: 1206
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2007 9:02 am
Location: Over there

Re: Best ways to hold a russian mass unit rush

Post by Navarone_Guy »

Yeah, if anything, uhlans are the best weapon any civ has against Russia in age 2. Just spam uhlans and keep a few xbows to take out his muskets. He shouldn't be able to do ANYTHING.
Groovy.

User avatar
EndlessPower
Lieutenant
Lieutenant
Posts: 133
Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2008 3:00 pm

Re: Best ways to hold a russian mass unit rush

Post by EndlessPower »

That was exactly what I though and what I've done. I spammed uhlans backed with some xbows defended by like 10 pikes.

But his mass was so damn huge my uhlans couldn't do it. I had never seen such a masser in 1on1 he had so many muskets and strelets.

Had no towers tho, guess in these cases I should get towers.

User avatar
I__CHAOS__I
N3O Member
N3O Member
Posts: 3009
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2007 12:55 am
Location: ??

Re: Best ways to hold a russian mass unit rush

Post by I__CHAOS__I »

[quote=""EndlessPower""]That was exactly what I though and what I've done. I spammed uhlans backed with some xbows defended by like 10 pikes.

But his mass was so damn huge my uhlans couldn't do it. I had never seen such a masser in 1on1 he had so many muskets and strelets.

Had no towers tho, guess in these cases I should get towers.[/quote]

at what time was his mass so huge?
use ur uhlans to spot where his army is and how big it is
I dont think you need towers
Image
Wisdom is the supreme part of happiness. - Sophocles
Happiness belongs to the self-sufficient. - Aristotle

HuggyPierre
N3O Officer
N3O Officer
Posts: 1738
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2008 4:06 pm

Re: Best ways to hold a russian mass unit rush

Post by HuggyPierre »

Don't give the russian player time to get his eco up. Attack him early (first fight is important, you need to bring down his cossacks) and do constant raiding. I played russians a lot myself and it's really hard to spam units and have a constant vill production in the beginning.

User avatar
EndlessPower
Lieutenant
Lieutenant
Posts: 133
Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2008 3:00 pm

Re: Best ways to hold a russian mass unit rush

Post by EndlessPower »

[quote=""I__CHAOS__I""]
at what time was his mass so huge?
use ur uhlans to spot where his army is and how big it is
I dont think you need towers[/quote]

hm, about 8 minutes I guess.

He attacked me once early and first time I made it to drive him back.

Then I kept making army but he had 2 blockhouses massing so hard that when he attacked me I didn't stand a chance even with a decent uhlan army.

[quote=""HuggyPierre""]Don't give the russian player time to get his eco up. Attack him early (first fight is important, you need to bring down his cossacks) and do constant raiding. I played russians a lot myself and it's really hard to spam units and have a constant vill production in the beginning.[/quote]

Well, the thing is, he overmasses me since the very start.

User avatar
36drew
Honorary Officer
Posts: 2713
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2007 6:22 am

Re: Best ways to hold a russian mass unit rush

Post by 36drew »

Post a replay. I still find this hard to believe. I've always found germany vs. russia one of the easiest matches in the game.

User avatar
EndlessPower
Lieutenant
Lieutenant
Posts: 133
Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2008 3:00 pm

Re: Best ways to hold a russian mass unit rush

Post by EndlessPower »

So did I. It's a shame I don't have the Rec.

I usually play aztec, I turned to germany exactly because I though it was easy and afterall it didn't go over so well.

Next time this happens tho I will upload the rec.

User avatar
ruminator
Honorary Member
Honorary Member
Posts: 408
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 3:09 pm
Location: At work, as usual

Re: Best ways to hold a russian mass unit rush

Post by ruminator »

I have had similar problems with Hussars v mass mace - while they should win on paper, the dubious pathing of uhlans and hussars seems to have them bumping in to each other while they get shot to bits. I think you need some uber micro to win ... and I don't have it!
"Could you, would you, with a goat? Would you, could you, on a boat?" Doctor Seuss

"Why does the Air Force need expensive new bombers? Have the people we've been bombing over the years been complaining?"
George Wallace

User avatar
deaconferal
Honorary Member
Honorary Member
Posts: 157
Joined: Mon May 26, 2008 2:43 am
Location: Hershey, Pennsylvania
Contact:

Re: Best ways to hold a russian mass unit rush

Post by deaconferal »

[quote=""ruminator""]I have had similar problems with Hussars v mass mace - while they should win on paper, the dubious pathing of uhlans and hussars seems to have them bumping in to each other while they get shot to bits. I think you need some uber micro to win ... and I don't have it![/quote]

Try using attack move. It basicly micros your cav automatically on groups of LI. Theres a VOD of parfait doing this on rtsprofessional.com. Link on the front page. It might help that problem.

The biggest problem with Russia is that they are so food heavy right at the start of colonial. They need to queue up their vils (270) plus a batch of strels (375) and they still need wood for houses and such. So I would suggest disrupting his food vils as soon as you get your first uhlans and then when he actually attacks you at home, your uhlans should mop up his strels. Other than that just follow whats been said here. Uhlans and xbows should really eat Russia alive.

User avatar
36drew
Honorary Officer
Posts: 2713
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2007 6:22 am

Re: Best ways to hold a russian mass unit rush

Post by 36drew »

x 2. Use attack move and you don't really have pathing issues. Or even better yet -- use attack move and then micro them further.

User avatar
Kaiser_von_Nuben
Honorary Member
Honorary Member
Posts: 2186
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 11:40 pm
Location: New York, NY USA

Re: Best ways to hold a russian mass unit rush

Post by Kaiser_von_Nuben »

You should not wait until 8:00 to see how big his army is. I agree with everyone here that you need to get lots of uhlans right away in colonial and bother him from the get-go. I have a good rec of Luigi using the early uhlans, then xbow strat against Russia. Use those uhlans to scout, pick off vils and eliminate the cossacks. With 9 xbows following the horse, you should have little trouble killing strels and muskets. Meanwhile, he will bankrupt himself trying to replace strels at 375 food a pop (or vils at 270 a pop). The thing I love about uhlans is that they leave you plenty of food to keep your econ going... it is all about coin with them.

BTW, lots of experts say that the 5 Uhlan card is not worth having. I find that it works well in team games and in a 1v1 emergency, but it only represents 750 resources, 300 of which are technically "free" because Germany gets two free uhlans with every colonial shipment (except team cav damage). The 9 xbow card, by contrast, is probably the best colonial military card in the game. The xbows alone are worth 720 resources, AND you get 2 uhlans worth 300. That is a very well balanced early force; with pikes added in you can handle almost anyone.
Image

Image


"The German Army will not stand for it!"

-Colonel Bockner, King Solomon's Mines (1985)

Post Reply