possible 1.02

Talk about Strategies and share your Replays

Moderators: Global Moderator, Age Moderator

User avatar
luukje
Colonel
Colonel
Posts: 553
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2007 5:21 pm

possible 1.02

Post by luukje »

Just done some reading on agesanc, what would you guys like for 1.02? Whenever they decide to do a patch that is. I dont like posting on age sanc because if you do, you get flamed by 2k plus players and feel like a fool.

Current balance looks to be that India, Japan, German are considered the best. Japan has strong units and a solid, unraidable economy. India has an incredible unit mix, early map control with agra and later elephants and agra. German have the improved uhlans to quickly get out a combo or go raiding and later on has mercs and settler wagon boom.
Russia, Iro and aztec can compete, French and China do ok. Spain, sioux and brits have their moments.
Otto and Dutch are considered weak and Ports are absolutely UP.

Also some players are complaing that to much games are played in age 2, making games a little boring if you never get to use age 3 stuff and its a big disadvantage for civs that get some types of units only in age 3 (like ranged cavalry or skirmisher).

One of the best things I read was that Germans are very strong but dont have anything you can consider to be really lame. They just have a nice unique balance of units, cards and strats.
This made me think on having future balance based on germany. And on keeping as much as possible the same, because every change creates new imbalances. A small nerf to top civs, leave the middle civs as they are and a small boost to the weak civs.

So for germans, the only thing I would change is make the 9xbow card 8xbow.
India, zamburak can do with less multiplier vs cavalry and agra fort must be build close to own base or gives another bonus, not 2 sepoy.
Japan. Very difficult. Golden pavillion damage bonusses to 10%. Maybe move ashi upgrade cards 1 age (to 3 and 4). Maybe take 10 HP away because I like diversity and ashi are designed as fast moving, high damage muskets. Something interesting was moving ashi all the way to age 3 but this would require a total redesign of Japan balance.

Russia could use some anticavalry, make cavalry archers set in age 2.
Aztec, not much comments on them. They get a bunch of xp and flow of cards early making them quite OK. Havent played them much so really cant comment on them.
Iro look quite ok. Some peolpe complaining about aenna.
French are balanced, lets just give cuirrassier age 2 base stats.
China still a little weak vs cavalry, maybe a little boost to keshik. Or put them in some better armies.
Sioux: no idea.
Brits: they look ok on paper but keep on having some problems.
Spain: give them back the rods shipments.

Now we come to the 3 civs that can use a real boost.

Dutch: give back 1 settler and remove gold crate: they are so weak in colonial.
Otto: difficult. they suffer a lot from having to build 3 buildings in colonial to get unit mix. Maybe reduce the villager training times upgrades a few seconds? Or maybe the church should.
Ports: give them 1 extra settler and change 1 food crate with a wood crate. get the infantry upgrade cards to a bit normal ages. Make bestieiros 2000 wood again. Make TC weaker vs ships.

In general, I hope the small boost to duct and spain will make them play more and bring age 3 in to play again.

So if you took time reading this, all comments and ideas are welcome. With 14 civs, you cant achieve perfect balance without losing uniqness, and some civs will always have the number of another one.

User avatar
ruminator
Major
Major
Posts: 408
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 3:09 pm
Location: At work, as usual

Re: possible 1.02

Post by ruminator »

Germans in age 2 are very strong - 9xbow + 2 uhlan followed by 5 uhlan card, while building more xbow from barracks is tough for anyone to defend. Reduction to 8 xbow is a potentially good one!

For some reason the developers think Ports are competitie and always have been - go figure!

Ottos are just different now with change to mosque, I think players just need to get used to them!

Absolutely no boosts to Russia please - cossacks + musketeers are more than adequate anti-cav in age 2.

With xp nerf on bank building, Dutch seem more vulnerable in early age 2 and their start was slowed as well.

China seem pretty balanced now, but not an expert.

I don't really know India so can't comment.
"Could you, would you, with a goat? Would you, could you, on a boat?" Doctor Seuss

"Why does the Air Force need expensive new bombers? Have the people we've been bombing over the years been complaining?"
George Wallace

User avatar
I__CHAOS__I
Honorary Member
Honorary Member
Posts: 3007
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2007 12:55 am
Location: ??

Re: possible 1.02

Post by I__CHAOS__I »

changing the xbow card from 9 to 8 wont change a thing, it's those bloody uhlans that are too good now.
Give back the penality vs vills at least and dont give free uhlans with the 3 and 2 SW shipment (age II)

japan need to have ashi's fixed (I'd reduce the range to 10) and the shrines need to be looked at as well. They gather too much resources. Japan is OP in team games imho.

I can't say much about india cuz i wont play em. But what lord suggested about removing the 2 sepoys with the agra fort wonder sounds good.
Maybe remove 1 woodchopping upgrade they start with.

I think dutch are fine but people need to explore different playstyles with them. the 4 bank FF is history.

Ports need the combat cards in age II and schooners should be replaced by a trickle card.

otto makes me cry. no idea how to fix em.

give sioux the 100 wood back.

that's all for now :D
Image
Wisdom is the supreme part of happiness. - Sophocles
Happiness belongs to the self-sufficient. - Aristotle

Navarone_Guy
Honorary Officer
Posts: 1206
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2007 9:02 am
Location: Over there

Re: possible 1.02

Post by Navarone_Guy »

I say China needs a qiang/steppe banner army. Right now, there's just nothing they can do against a cav/light inf combo. If you've ever tried to play against Russia with China you know what I mean.

Also, I think yumi/xbows need less attack and better multipliers. They need to fit into their roles better.

Also, steppe riders need a little boost IMO. They're so weak and big for their cost that pathing problems are debilitating for them.

As I've been saying for about 2 years now, give the Ports the hp/combat/attack cards in age 2 and 3. There's NO reason to give such a weak civ a unique handicap like that.

Nerf schooners. Civs like Ports are too damn map-specific. On land they're worthless, on sea they're OP. It's just stupid.

The others civs, I can't really say enough about.
Groovy.

User avatar
Soccerman771
N3O Officer
N3O Officer
Posts: 2874
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2008 7:25 am
Location: Sachse, Texas (near Dallas)
Contact:

Re: possible 1.02

Post by Soccerman771 »

[quote=""I__CHAOS__I""]changing the xbow card from 9 to 8 wont change a thing, it's those bloody uhlans that are too good now.
Give back the penality vs vills at least and dont give free uhlans with the 3 and 2 SW shipment (age II)
[/quote]

I couldn't agree more. I was playing Craz3n the other day and 7 uhlans w/tc fire obliterated 40 strelets like they never existed and my micro's not that bad (well, not as bad as it used to be).

[quote=""I__CHAOS__I""]
japan need to have ashi's fixed (I'd reduce the range to 10) and the shrines need to be looked at as well. They gather too much resources. Japan is OP in team games imho.[/quote]
Ashi's are completely op. They counter skirms, which are supposed to be their counter.

[quote=""I__CHAOS__I""]I think dutch are fine but people need to explore different playstyles with them. the 4 bank FF is history.[/quote]
I think the banks loosing so much build XP is what hurt this civ the most.

[quote=""I__CHAOS__I""]Ports need the combat cards in age II and schooners should be replaced by a trickle card.[/quote]

That's an interesting change for ports. Not only would they have no chance on land, but none on water either. I think they need to have reduced warship attack or maybe schooners only reduces boat costs by 40-50%. 20 range Dragoons (if you get there) are OP.

I'd like to see sevastapol get a minor boost, but not anywhere like they were. It's hard enough as it is to boom w/Russia so being able to get those other two TC's up is critical.

Zamb's that have 5X multiplyer vs. Cav is ridiculous. I think the fort needs to be stronger.
jtackel@hotmail.com

"Do you know how difficult it is to micro Napalm?" - Lazy_Tuga

"This isn't going to work. I've picked a water deck and there isn't even a pond on this map." - Blackadderthe4th

User avatar
Soccerman771
N3O Officer
N3O Officer
Posts: 2874
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2008 7:25 am
Location: Sachse, Texas (near Dallas)
Contact:

Re: possible 1.02

Post by Soccerman771 »

Left one thing off: I agree that there are way too many colonial battles. Going to Fort should be incorporated into the game. How - I don't know, that's why I don't develop video games ;)
jtackel@hotmail.com

"Do you know how difficult it is to micro Napalm?" - Lazy_Tuga

"This isn't going to work. I've picked a water deck and there isn't even a pond on this map." - Blackadderthe4th

User avatar
36drew
Honorary Officer
Posts: 2713
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2007 6:22 am

Re: possible 1.02

Post by 36drew »

The only thing I'll say is that i'd like to see a series of tiny patches released.

djdan
N3O Member
N3O Member
Posts: 1660
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2007 3:03 am
Steam: SpanktheMonkey
AOE3 Nickname: djdan

Re: possible 1.02

Post by djdan »

The only thing I can think of is the Kami Heaven card for Japan that boosts the trickle when you have 20 shrines that can produce a possible 0.73 food each thats just OP lol
From the OP maker of the OP Sigs, Cleeduz brings maybe some of his best work yet!
Image

User avatar
Sporting_Lisbon
N3O Officer
N3O Officer
Posts: 5276
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2011 3:18 pm
Location: Lisboa

Re: possible 1.02

Post by Sporting_Lisbon »

Ports: With each covered wagon you also recieve 2 vills. That would be more than enough to let them have some flexibility.

Japan: Ashi attack card gives them 10% attack and 10% more speed but also a 0.75 negative bonus vs infantry. The idea is to fix them like we fixed halbs. Set shrine rate to 1.00 but make heavenly kami and toshogu boost hunt rates.

Yumis: 18 attack x2 vs HI.

India: Make zams have 125 hp but 15 atk and x3 multiplier vs cav, like mini-goons.

Camel combat only gives 20% down from 30% atk.

Remove the last food crate but add a wood crate. (I'm not sure if this works tho)

Germans: Bring back uhlan penalty vs vills.

Overall:

Reduce RI penalty of 0.75 to 0.80, I don't like to see my army own just cause my pikes were killed and he sent a cav shipment.

Xbows - 15 atk, 1.5 multiplier vs HI.

Bring fortress age up time and units received with age up to what it was before being nerfed a long time ago.

Fishing boats price reduced to 75 wood and schooners and east india men all give a dock travois and reduce price by 30%.


Just some ideas, thinking about a patch for all civs would take me too much time.

User avatar
Tatltael
Major
Major
Posts: 387
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2008 9:28 am

Re: possible 1.02

Post by Tatltael »

[quote=""Sporting_Lisbon""]Ports: With each covered wagon you also recieve 2 vills. That would be more than enough to let them have some flexibility.[/quote]

User avatar
I__CHAOS__I
Honorary Member
Honorary Member
Posts: 3007
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2007 12:55 am
Location: ??

Re: possible 1.02

Post by I__CHAOS__I »

[quote=""Sporting_Lisbon""]Japan: Ashi attack card gives them 10% attack and 10% more speed but also a 0.75 negative bonus vs infantry. The idea is to fix them like we fixed halbs. [/quote]

not more speed, they have already too much speed imho
make em train 10% faster or whatever

the rest I like
Image
Wisdom is the supreme part of happiness. - Sophocles
Happiness belongs to the self-sufficient. - Aristotle

User avatar
Palehorse
Captain
Captain
Posts: 216
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2007 12:17 pm

Re: possible 1.02

Post by Palehorse »

Just give Spain the original shipment earn rate, and I will live with the other nerfs.
Image

User avatar
blayzer13
Colonel
Colonel
Posts: 505
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2007 2:39 am
Location: vermont,usa

Re: possible 1.02

Post by blayzer13 »

As one of the several brit players i can see changing the lb/ musk shipments to increase by 1, if you make 15-20 lb with a 7 musket shipment 7 uhlans and 20-25 xbow are countered pretty well.
alternatively you could make 10 muskets, followed by 5 lb with a 7 lb shipment you can combat a 15 xbow army with 7 uhlans.

also a 10 hp bonus to lb and a additional multiplier vs hi to combat crossbows could be a bit handier, lb are 95 hp with 17 base attack, 60f 40 and xbow are 40f 40w with 18 base attack, while xbow also have a bigger multiplier.

User avatar
joe4holly
N3O Officer
N3O Officer
Posts: 1703
Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2008 3:16 am
Location: Southamption

Re: possible 1.02

Post by joe4holly »

The Best way to find out is to test them

for ports I think the TC wagon and 2 villgers is cool but might be a little to strong . Maybe 100 random crate could be better ?

Navarone_Guy
Honorary Officer
Posts: 1206
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2007 9:02 am
Location: Over there

Re: possible 1.02

Post by Navarone_Guy »

[quote=""Sporting_Lisbon""]Ports: With each covered wagon you also recieve 2 vills. That would be more than enough to let them have some flexibility.

Japan: Ashi attack card gives them 10% attack and 10% more speed but also a 0.75 negative bonus vs infantry. The idea is to fix them like we fixed halbs. Set shrine rate to 1.00 but make heavenly kami and toshogu boost hunt rates.

Yumis: 18 attack x2 vs HI.

India: Make zams have 125 hp but 15 atk and x3 multiplier vs cav, like mini-goons.

Camel combat only gives 20% down from 30% atk.

Remove the last food crate but add a wood crate. (I'm not sure if this works tho)

Germans: Bring back uhlan penalty vs vills.

Overall:

Reduce RI penalty of 0.75 to 0.80, I don't like to see my army own just cause my pikes were killed and he sent a cav shipment.

Xbows - 15 atk, 1.5 multiplier vs HI.

Bring fortress age up time and units received with age up to what it was before being nerfed a long time ago.

Fishing boats price reduced to 75 wood and schooners and east india men all give a dock travois and reduce price by 30%.


Just some ideas, thinking about a patch for all civs would take me too much time.[/quote]



For your yumi boost, no way in hell. Cut their attack to like 16 if you're going to give them 2x. Their stats are almost as good as skirms in COLONIAL, they cost less, and they have almost as much range. If we did what you said, the game's balance would go down the drain.

Fishing boats do NOT need yet another boost. Your "fix" would also make east india men far better than schooners.

Ranged inf do NOT need a boost vs. cav. If he sends a cav shipment, just tear him apart with your pikes, and if you get your pikes killed your army deserves to die anyway. You shouldn't undo the counter system cause you don't accommodate for it.

Your zamburak edit would make them stronger than they are now, and they're the last unit that needs a boost. Boost keshiks instead.

Your Port edit would only make the Port econ better, when it's their military that needs fixing.

I like all your other changes, though.
Groovy.

Post Reply