KingKaramazov conviced me about Monk Disciples

General Discussion about Age of Empires III: Definitive Edition

Moderators: Global Moderator, Age Moderator

User avatar
MNBob
Honorary Officer
Posts: 375
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2007 5:09 am
Location: Victoria, MN

KingKaramazov conviced me about Monk Disciples

Post by MNBob »

Since the game was released I did not think Monk Disciples were too strong. But now that I've really looked and see how many upgrades that have available, I think their is a problem. Fortress Disciples are really strong and the Chinese Disciple FF is definitely a viable strategy for good 1v1 players.

I think the biggest problem is the number of disciples sent when you use the age 3 wonder = 12. How does this make sense?
age 2 = 5, age 3 = 12, age4 = 14, age 5 = 26

Doesn't that look like ES was balancing the numbers and forgot to change age 3 at some point?

Also, KK you are correct about that one Monastery tech. One tech does increase Monk disciples by 20%.

StrokeyBlofeld
Clan Leader
Clan Leader
Posts: 2817
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2007 3:36 am
Location: Bristol UK
Contact:

Re: KingKaramazov conviced me about Monk Disciples

Post by StrokeyBlofeld »

12 does seem a bit much for age 3, perhaps 8 would be better.

User avatar
I__CHAOS__I
Honorary Member
Honorary Member
Posts: 3007
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2007 12:55 am
Location: ??

Re: KingKaramazov conviced me about Monk Disciples

Post by I__CHAOS__I »

the monastery offers 2 upgrades, one is 20% boost, the other an aura of 10% for your monk, that last one is bugged btw, the aura also affects other units (OP OP OP)
the chinese FF is still rather new, most people have been rushing with china since the release. I guess some good counter strats will show up soon, but disciples might get nerfed in the next patch regardless
Image
Wisdom is the supreme part of happiness. - Sophocles
Happiness belongs to the self-sufficient. - Aristotle

User avatar
MNBob
Honorary Officer
Posts: 375
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2007 5:09 am
Location: Victoria, MN

Re: KingKaramazov conviced me about Monk Disciples

Post by MNBob »

Yes, I know about the bugged aura too.

I was using FF with china right from the start. But I did it for hand mortars. Then I felt like I was laming and and I stopped which is why I guess I'm always playing weaker civs. But now I'm going to FF for disciples and hand mortars and see if I can finally get around to improving my 1v1 play. I'm finding it kind of ridiculous how many units disciples can beat.

KingKaramazov
Brigadier
Brigadier
Posts: 1216
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2007 12:12 pm
Location: Boston, MA
Contact:

Re: KingKaramazov conviced me about Monk Disciples

Post by KingKaramazov »

The number you get is definitely a problem - you can get to Age 3 and suddenly beat most rushing forces simply because upgraded disciples > most colonial units.

It's also simply an issue because they train so quickly and they are so cheap - you can be beating somebody's army and then suddenly out pop 5 disciples which are in many ways better than coyote runners...it's plain dumb.


I think they need a train time increase or a cost increase, that monastery tech should be changed to upgrade the Monk and not the Disciples, and the Age 3 shipment of disciples should be changed to 8 or 9 instead of 12.


In any case, something should be done. They are far lamer than War Dogs ever were.
"Why are some people all grasshopper fiddlings, scrappings, all antennae shivering, one big ganglion eternally knotting, slip-knotting, square-knotting themselves?  They stoke a furnace all their lives, sweat their lips, shine their ey

User avatar
sylvalex311
Corporal
Corporal
Posts: 72
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2007 2:24 pm
Location: MI

Re: KingKaramazov conviced me about Monk Disciples

Post by sylvalex311 »

I 1 v 1 KingK against his disciples and they rocked! I had a pretty good Japanese Musket rush and it was beaten back once he hit fortress. I'm probably about a PR 20 or so on TAD and I got dominated...

User avatar
I__CHAOS__I
Honorary Member
Honorary Member
Posts: 3007
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2007 12:55 am
Location: ??

Re: KingKaramazov conviced me about Monk Disciples

Post by I__CHAOS__I »

taking out the monk ASAP is important just like the iroquois rambo chief
and it's rather expensive to revive him. Maybe a few spies (for the civs that have access to those) are not too bad? without the monk, it's just a matter of killing the 12 from age up and the ones he still had.
I guess spain FF with rods&dogs will do fine, and some good heavy cav units. I wouldnt be surprised to see more spanish soon.
Image
Wisdom is the supreme part of happiness. - Sophocles
Happiness belongs to the self-sufficient. - Aristotle

Navarone_Guy
Honorary Officer
Posts: 1206
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2007 9:02 am
Location: Over there

Re: KingKaramazov conviced me about Monk Disciples

Post by Navarone_Guy »

Taking out the monk is nearly pointless because he has a good 1125 hp in colonial, while his monks are the ones with all the attack and low HP.

Needs an overall nerf.
Groovy.

KingKaramazov
Brigadier
Brigadier
Posts: 1216
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2007 12:12 pm
Location: Boston, MA
Contact:

Re: KingKaramazov conviced me about Monk Disciples

Post by KingKaramazov »

Plus it's so easy to just have the monk hang back fromt he fight and spam disciples...he's like a walking disciple barracks with 1600 hp in fortress.
"Why are some people all grasshopper fiddlings, scrappings, all antennae shivering, one big ganglion eternally knotting, slip-knotting, square-knotting themselves?  They stoke a furnace all their lives, sweat their lips, shine their ey

User avatar
I__CHAOS__I
Honorary Member
Honorary Member
Posts: 3007
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2007 12:55 am
Location: ??

Re: KingKaramazov conviced me about Monk Disciples

Post by I__CHAOS__I »

monk has 675 HP in colonial btw, not 1125, unless with cards or something
in fortress 1575 HP if you age with the white pagoda
Image
Wisdom is the supreme part of happiness. - Sophocles
Happiness belongs to the self-sufficient. - Aristotle

Navarone_Guy
Honorary Officer
Posts: 1206
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2007 9:02 am
Location: Over there

Re: KingKaramazov conviced me about Monk Disciples

Post by Navarone_Guy »

Chaos, the monk/disciple boosting wonder is the way to go for a disciple spam. It's what brings up the monk to 1125 hp and 17 attack.
Groovy.

User avatar
I__CHAOS__I
Honorary Member
Honorary Member
Posts: 3007
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2007 12:55 am
Location: ??

Re: KingKaramazov conviced me about Monk Disciples

Post by I__CHAOS__I »

but it's used to go to fortress as far as I've seen in replays
to go to colonial the porcelain tower is much better
anyway, it's not how fights are supposed to be, so nerfing those is def a good idea. People should make real military units :/
Image
Wisdom is the supreme part of happiness. - Sophocles
Happiness belongs to the self-sufficient. - Aristotle

Navarone_Guy
Honorary Officer
Posts: 1206
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2007 9:02 am
Location: Over there

Re: KingKaramazov conviced me about Monk Disciples

Post by Navarone_Guy »

I've never really tried a disciple FF, and have been having great success sending the 5 disciple card in age 1, and having an army of 11 free disciples from aging up, starting, etc. Just use those guys with your chu ko nu and steppe riders and you're set in age 2.
Groovy.

ZoRPrimE
Major
Major
Posts: 251
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2007 7:00 am
Location: Limassol, Cyprus

Re: KingKaramazov conviced me about Monk Disciples

Post by ZoRPrimE »

I've had a pretty good explorer vs. explorer battle vs. another chinese player with the Monk/Rax. Add the Heal all units card to the mix (aged up mid fight) and queue up more diciples and sent my 7 riders. I think it was the longest explorer vs. explorer combat in early game I've ever seen.

Be interesting to see the same match up with a damiyo!
"It is by will alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the juice of sapho that thoughts acquire speed, the lips acquire stains, the stains become a warning. It is by will alone I set my mind

User avatar
blayzer13
Colonel
Colonel
Posts: 505
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2007 2:39 am
Location: vermont,usa

Re: KingKaramazov conviced me about Monk Disciples

Post by blayzer13 »

op op op lol nerf please

Post Reply