The Ultimate Dual Rax Challenge

[Kaiser_von_Nuben]

We all know that the man who spams the most units in the first battle usually carries the fight and the day. Some civs can do this better because they can complement an early spam with mighty military shipments. Today, however, I want to focus on pure early massing, particularly with archaic infantry.

I have been testing several different archaic spams. The French are probably the best at this. I can squeeze out two consecutive batches of 10 pike while keeping vil production constant. With the Germans, I can get 10 xbows from 2 rax in my first batch, generally about 5:30-5:35. I can't follow it up with a second full batch, though. Housing can be a major problem when you have so much military pop queued, as well as such heavy wood demand.

My next challenge is this: Brits. Has anyone gone immediate dual rax (I'm talking, before your first shipment gets there) AND spammed 10 longbows? I'm curious to know if it could be done, since LB's cost significantly more food than other archaic units. I've noticed that you need at least 10 vils on wood PLUS a 400 wood Age-Up politician to pull off an immediate full double rax batch. But that assumes 40 food per unit, not 60.

What do you think? Can this be done? Is it practical? Sometimes I find single rax can actually be more efficient in the long run, since you can put vils on coin for market ups early, then do a reliable dual rax spam later on. But in so many rush games, you just want to flood them early. That's why I've been tinkering with these dual rax options.

I will say this: Even a nasty Aztec rusher does not expect to see 19 xbow when he moves in at 5:30. That's another reason I like this option... fee Tscherments kann mass units qvickly, too, ja?

[Lost_my_hope]

When it comes to Archaic spam the Spanish are coolest, maybe not best but like I said, cool xD
50% training speed from Archaic infantry training and 40% from fencing school get you almost instant xbows and pikes from a single rax. Only problem is that you need to ship 2 cards that don't give you units or resources. Oh well, I guess you can't have it all.
I've never seen a British 2 rax spam and I don't think it'd be good. You need massive resources already to maintain villager production, manor building and training units from one rax. Also for that 200 wood you might as well build another manor. I like sending Fencing school after the 700 wood and 5 vill cards, or maybe a little later.

[Aaryn_GenD]

british 2 rax spam would not be effective i guess, the early wood is better spent in manors and else, after like 1 or 2min after their first rax, the brits usually start building their 2nd rax, as we know.

lb+pike are also not as good in hitting & running as xbow/pike, i much prefer the xbows here lbows are the perfect defending unit kinda in terms of ri

[StrokeyBlofeld]

I always go double rax with Brits unless I'm on cav or grens. I don't think there is a problem getting 10 l-bows straight out. It's quite possible to have 26/28 by about 6:40/6:50.

[Aaryn_GenD]

[quote=""StrokeyBlofeld""]I always go double rax with Brits unless I'm on cav or grens. I don't think there is a problem getting 10 l-bows straight out. It's quite possible to have 26/28 by about 6:40/6:50.[/quote]

i guess you're going 700w then 600w in this case? as i think you could get sufficient manors and enough wood for the lbs that early.
the general 700w/5vills/600w/4vills is more of a longterm solution.

this build is interesting,i see it definitly as a nice defense while still keeping up the boom

[Soccerman771]

[quote=""StrokeyBlofeld""]I always go double rax with Brits unless I'm on cav or grens. I don't think there is a problem getting 10 l-bows straight out. It's quite possible to have 26/28 by about 6:40/6:50.[/quote]

I second this. With Brits if I'm going lb's or musks, I always go dual rax. I may not be able to get 10 with the first batch, but I usually get at least 7-8 (which makes the dual worth it, IMO). Plus what Strokey said.

[Kaiser_von_Nuben]

Normally my second rax goes up after receiving 700 wood and building an initial military batch. I'm just curious to see if immediate dual rax would be a good idea. For defense purposes, it could be very useful, since rush civs think they can overwhelm boom civs because they don't have enough early military. The immediate dual rax addresses that issue; with an immediate double batch you can answer anything the Aztecs, Iros or Russians throw at you, especially with TC fire.

[StrokeyBlofeld]

The problem with the dual rax is the initial cost. The only decent way to overcome this is to age up with 500f, then go 700w 600w. This makes it work well.

[gendarme]

But no early market upgrades without the 200 coin though.

[StrokeyBlofeld]

[quote=""gendarme""]But no early market upgrades without the 200 coin though.[/quote]

Hunting dogs and log saw is all you need at that stage, and those can be got in the transition.

[Blackadderthe4th]

[quote=""StrokeyBlofeld""]The problem with the dual rax is the initial cost. The only decent way to overcome this is to age up with 500f, then go 700w 600w. This makes it work well.[/quote]

Yup this is what I used to do when I played Brits, can't pull it off anymore as I'm too out of practice with them. But Jims and soccer's dual rax lbow spams in games leave me to knowing that its more than possible to pull of a dual rax spam with brits.

[Kaiser_von_Nuben]

Ah, the 500f poli is key for Brits, then just a ton of wood gathering in the transition to get 400 wood for 2 rax, as well as the market and early improvements.

Yes, that's one of the things I don't particularly like about the immediate dual rax: You can only get the gang saw and dogs; you need to wait quite a while before getting the advanced ones. Then again, if you win the game at 8:30, who cares? :twisted:

[IndyBrit]

If I'm only spamming units, I usually do 500 food age, 700W, 600W, and yet still do a single rax and then a second rax shortly after. Sometimes I do a third rax when I do the second, the third rax provides great flexibility especially in a team game. I know for me, I'm going to have more total military by 8:00 or so if I start with the one rax than initiating with two because that second build with 2 rax is not full for me with longbows (that's 1200 food queued by about 1:15 into age 2 !!)

[Shizle]

500 food, 700W, 5 villie. I prefer to get two rax up...just to get them up and be done with it. Then focus on building manors and lbs. There is a recent replay where a good player builds two rax and builds muskets in a 1v1. IIRC, he didn't get many out in the first batch. But enough to apply pressure.

[I__CHAOS__I]

brits can skip the market to do an early dual rax musket push, combined with the 6 musk shipment it can be rather surprising. I saw Oedy doing this if I'm not mistaken