Navarone's guide to the "People's Army"

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Navarone_Guy
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Re: Navarone's guide to the "People's Army"

Post by Navarone_Guy »

[quote=""I__CHAOS__I""][quote=""Navarone_Guy""]China's anti-cav is worthless.[/quote]

[quote=""Navarone_Guy""]The qiang pike does the job against cavalry, has great siege, and is dirt cheap and a great meatshield with 110 hp for 60 wood.[/quote]

8O

[quote=""Navarone_Guy""]Also, CHAOS, I played Germans back when the uhlan bug existed. Germany was completely and utterly worthless beyond all reason.[/quote]

I know, but why not play em now when they are a well balanced civ?[/quote]

I do play them now, but I mostly played them back when they were worthless.

About your little comment on the qiang pike. They are dirt cheap and a great meatshield but not much else. 24 damage to cavalry with no cards and few upgrades is pathetic.
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Re: Navarone's guide to the "People's Army"

Post by I__CHAOS__I »

but they do their job, right?
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Navarone_Guy
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Re: Navarone's guide to the "People's Army"

Post by Navarone_Guy »

Yes, although they can easily be overpowered by strong cavalry because they can't be produced alone. You need to also buy skirmisher units or worthless cav archers units along with them.
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Re: Navarone's guide to the "People's Army"

Post by KingKaramazov »

Keshiks and Qiangs need to be boosted against cav when they nerf China...but it won't happen.
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Re: Navarone's guide to the "People's Army"

Post by Navarone_Guy »

I know. China is gonna get really overnerfed like Germany did. They need to boost qiang pikes and especially keshiks. Those guys are absolutely worthless. They have low attack, low HP, no hand resist, no hit and run, no cards, and can only be produced in one army. They're also expensive as hell.

Meteor hammers also need a little boost methinks.

That should cancel out the nerfs to disciples (they will be worse than war dogs by far now) and the resource wonder.
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Re: Navarone's guide to the "People's Army"

Post by I__CHAOS__I »

if pikes gets more attack vs cav, they need a nerf as well
their siege is a bit too good, so maybe lower base attack and add a multiplayer vs cav, and reduce the siege.
Even the HP is too high imho. (add to that the brits consulate and u got the best shield unit for a bargain price)
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Re: Navarone's guide to the "People's Army"

Post by KingKaramazov »

Even if they don't boost pikes I think it makes sense to boost Keshiks...I mean, they are a completely useless unit that nobody uses ever. They need to be boosted significantly to be at all worth making.
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Re: Navarone's guide to the "People's Army"

Post by I__CHAOS__I »

true, keshiks are just lol atm
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Re: Navarone's guide to the "People's Army"

Post by ruminator »

[quote=""I__CHAOS__I""]true, keshiks are just lol atm[/quote]

But look what they did about kanya horsemen in TWC. They were a pants unit for an OP civ.
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Re: Navarone's guide to the "People's Army"

Post by MrChristy »

chinease guide........ "urgh... mummy i feel sick"

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Re: Navarone's guide to the "People's Army"

Post by Rudy_AU »

Thanks Nav, exactly what I need! Why is everybody calling the chinese OP? I got nailed a lot of times using the chinese. If it would be that easy to win then the stats would show it more clearly.

If you loose a game then the easy way out is to call the civ OP and degrade the winner and call him lame. Would it not be better to see it as a challenge and try to find a good strat against it? From what I read there are some strats around. So, I shut my mouth before you guys get too angry ... ;-)

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Re: Navarone's guide to the "People's Army"

Post by HuggyPierre »

They are strong, too strong imo. If you use them the right way they are OP. I struggled so many times vs players below my rank (pr 19-21). It's ok too lose when you make several mistakes or your opponent just plays a good game, but it's frustrating too lose, when you see that you just can't do anything. Your opponent has no real micromanagement but just so many troops that he can own you easily. If you play Ports for example and your opponent goes FF you have no chance. Even on water it will be very hard to handle. Nearly unpossible if you face a good player. I think thats why i would call China OP :P.

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Re: Navarone's guide to the "People's Army"

Post by Rudy_AU »

Ok, see your point, I think massing units is exactly what the designers intended to achieve, finally it is china as it stands for. But I agree that if there are advantages against same level players of other civs and there is no counter to it then it should be adjusted in the next patch.

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Re: Navarone's guide to the "People's Army"

Post by Navarone_Guy »

IMO Dutch are just as bad as China. They haven't always been OP, though, so they don't get as much attention. They don't automatically have that stigma.
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Re: Navarone's guide to the "People's Army"

Post by Cyclohexane »

[quote=""Navarone_Guy""]IMO Dutch are just as bad as China. They haven't always been OP, though, so they don't get as much attention. They don't automatically have that stigma.[/quote]

And you used to give me so much grief because I liked the Iros, but never took advantage of them.

But like CrAz3n said, you've paid your dues, time to collect.

You said Keshiks does not have any upgrade cards but the Age 2 Mongolian Scourge grants Keshiks a +1 multiplier towards heavy cavalry. They cannot hit and run but they do have a ROF of 1.5. I think if they had hand resists instead of ranged resists like cavalry archers, it would improve their survivability versus cavalry, but that 30% ranged resists helps versus light infantry. Keshiks are not suppose to hit and run, they are supposed to sit there and fire like crazy with guys with long sticks surrounding them.

With Mongolian Scourge, they do 32 damage at a ROF of 1.5 (so 64 damage in 3 seconds opposed to a cavalry archer at 90) and their support unit is also anti-cavalry which works well with them if they are not microed. Mongolian Scourge also has other great benefits for Steppe Riders and Iron Flails. Manchu Combat also grants 15% HP / Dam in Age 4 among other units.

I'm not advocating that China has strong anti-cavalry, that is their one weakness, but even then, they can be spammed like crazy and for the cost, they are not that bad with 1 shipment. They are cheap as hell and do not have cavalry path finding issues like melee cavalry. The problem with Keshiks is not against heavy cavalry, but the fact they are worthless versus everything else. Focusing on a Ming Army will leave you open to light infantry. But I fail to see the weakness in an army of mortars, Ming Army support in the back with Mongolian Scourge (keeping pikes close to Keshiks & mortars), with handfuls of Disciples running around...
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