Civ Strength according to Drew

[Navarone_Guy]

I tried India and failed. Miserably. I also devised a good strategy for them, but they're so damn bad if they do anything but a sepoy rush.

They age up too slowly to rush.
Their defense is too weak to do a FF and their "cannons" suck.
They have a weak turtle and a very weak late-game.
They have very few cards for their military.

[KingKaramazov]

Yea, they just don't have anything that really stands out. They have a lot of weaknesses and no real strengths. Their best characteristics are those which are average.

[I__CHAOS__I]

India's best strat is that fast age up + musk rush

it needs good starting crates though

[KingKaramazov]

Yea but the problem is it has no economic oomph to it...you're better off just playing the Ottomans if you want to do that, at least then you have a self-regulating economy with auto-produced villagers and what not.

[Macavity]

Best strategy is to get to fortress and use Urumi and Mahouts which are both OP units. They have way to many Military cards and not enough upgrade cards (especially military)
Oh and their late game economy is stronger than most. Sorry about the input that is opposite of everyone else, but then again I have played 100+ rated games as India.
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Per ES website the worst five civs listed best to worst with win percentages. Again I'd like to point out that India is not the bottom civ (which was my point from the beginning)

1 Britian - 47.04%
2 India - 47.00%
3 Spain - 46.86%
4 Japan - 46.45%
5 Portugal-43.51%

[kingchrisII]

that doesnt really mean a lot

i'd say indians are the worst civ lol

[RascalJones]

What says a lot is that 3 of the 4 civs I've played the most are considered bottom 5. Indian, Aztecs, and Ports. The other civ I've played with is Dutch, and when I started with them, they were very poorly rated. It'd be nice to see India get some of the boosts like the Dutch got to make them competitive. If Gurkhas were stronger, and the early economy better, then they'd be a force to be reckoned with.

Well, that and SOME sort of way to upgrade your military more.

[Sporting_Lisbon]

1 Britian - 47.04%
2 India - 47.00%
3 Spain - 46.86%
4 Japan - 46.45%
5 Portugal-43.51%

Hell yeah, Spain UP. Russia and Otto OP too btw. That statistics represent how easy a civ is to play, that's all. Everyone knows how strong otto is on lower levels eg

My only fear about India is that they get to something like aztec, some very good stuff and some very bad stuff and therefore a broken civ :\

[Navarone_Guy]

No surprise to see Portugal more than 3% below the 2nd lowest civ!

[Cyclohexane]

India could become OP very easily with their super muskets. They are similar to Janissaries except more damage, better multiplier to cavalry, less siege, and less expensive. Sure they cannot be upgraded much but that is not needed in a rush. As it is now, India cannot rush due to their slow age time and wood villagers. But any civ has the capacity to become OP if not boosted logically.

The suggestions I like are to remove the XP penalty and decrease housing costs by 10 wood (help early game vill spawning). I would also like to see the elite units spawned from the Wonder boosted (population reduction to same value as base unit since they already cost double and limited to 1).

However, with the XP penalty removed, on maps like Mongolia / Texas, they will have unlimited early game shipments (map dependent). But a couple maps should not dictate how they are played on all of the rest!

Gurkhas are fine, compare them to Aztec Maces! Their range increases each time they are upgraded and if they got CIR, then we could have another RG skirmisher / Cuirassier situation with Gurkhas and Muhots only worse. They had to keep Gurkhas less than skirmishers because they already have a sweet infantry unit.

I think India’s main problem is their subpar selection of Wonders and consulate options (compared to other Asians) combined with the worst economy in the game. When the shipment rate is increase (currently 8% slower), so will their economy due to the +1 villager with each shipment. Combined with cheaper houses, they will be an average 1v1 civilization and a dam good team civilization.

[KingKaramazov]

I don't really agree regarding the Ghurkas, Cyclo.

Giving Inda some way to boost Ghurkas against HI later on would only cover a up a glaring late game weakness they have, it wouldn't lead to abuse.

RG skirmisher / Cuirassier is A LOT different than Ghurkas and Mahouts. Unlike Cuirassiers, Mahouts are not actually that good against massed HI, and without CIR, Ghurkas are really bad against significantly upgraded HI.

[Cyclohexane]

^
Those are good points, but remember, they are fixing their economy as well. Removing that XP penalty combined with cheaper housing to allow an easier Discovery is huge to their economy. France is only so strong late game because of that econ. If you cannot support the OP units, it does not matter much. While their late game will be the same, you will see those beasts out earlier, before the fully upped HI comes out. That’s when you attack and cause damage to their econ. You have to have some type of counter because they could become OP easily. Nice HI, nice LI killers with built in siege, and decent LI (better than strelets, maces, and crossbows for sure).

But only time will tell. As it is now, I agree India is weak and Gurkas are < Skirmishers. The whole XP penalty does not make since unless they had some major problems in balance testing and had to nerf them.

If they left the penalty, another fix could be giving the Ottoman Consulate an arsenal wagon and getting rid of the minuteman crap.

[Navarone_Guy]

Cyclo, if you compare sepoys to muskets... you'll see that they are NOT a sweet infantry unit.

Their stats are fine early-game, but the Indians get what, one card/upgrade for them? They become COMPLETELY obsolete against say, an ashigaru spam. Gurkhas aren't good/specialized enough to stand up to massed muskets, so what else do they do?

Also, a word on mahouts. They're devastating to massed light infantry BECAUSE they have a 2x multiplier! They cost more than twice as much as a cuir yet do less damage per hit to heavy infantry. Mahouts are by no means anywhere as powerful/lame as cuirs.

[I__CHAOS__I]

all those who think Idia is UP should read and follow this discussion:

UP or not?

Looks like the experts are changing their mind about india a bit

[Macavity]

Thanks for the link!