What is the hardest civ to play in 1v1?

Sporting_Lisbon · Post by **Sporting_Lisbon** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 5:07 pm

I mean the one that is harder to master and use to the fullest. I say brits, only the evil NaturePhoenix can use them and make em look OP.

I left Dutch, China, Otto, Sioux, Iro, Russia, French and Spain out because I think they are quite easy to play and they would just make it a lot of options.

Soccerman771 · Post by **Soccerman771** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 5:16 pm

I won't say Brit's are "easy" but I've won my fair share of games with them and they are difficult to get everything out of them, so that was my vote. FWIW, I've never won a game playing as Spain. I could have easily have voted for Japan as well..

kingchrisII · Post by **kingchrisII** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 5:18 pm

Yes imo spain are hardest for me lol...but i'd have to say ports from your list, as if u stay colonial then you're kinda open to a rush, and with no villie cards in age 1 takes a while to get the econ going

Sporting_Lisbon · Post by **Sporting_Lisbon** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 5:55 pm

Spain FF has no tricks, FF,build skirms dogs and ship 2 falcs and lancers :\

luukje · Post by **luukje** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 7:09 pm

I would go for the Aztec 1.01 or india/ japan.
Firepit, wonders, consulate way more options than euros.

36drew · Post by **36drew** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 7:36 pm

For me ports or spain. Sometimes the strength of a civ doesn't matter if they don't mesh with your style.

StrokeyBlofeld · Post by **StrokeyBlofeld** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 8:12 pm

If I didn't play Brits so much, I would have voted Brits as they are not easy to get the most out of. But as I do, I voted Ports.

KingKaramazov · Post by **KingKaramazov** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 8:23 pm

Ports are difficult but they do have the whole 3 cm tc turtle thing going on, which doesn't have that much to it...I have to agree that the Brits are very difficult at anything beyond a lower level because stronger skilled players won't just let you boom.

If you're at a low level and can boom well then the Brits aren't that hard.

Spain FF might be easy now but they will be a difficult civ in 1.01. I think a lot of civs will be complex and have a lot more depth in 1.01 than before, though, so things are looking good.

ruminator · Post by **ruminator** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:00 pm

I'm afraid I just don't get Indians yet. I think I need to see some more replays as offline my age up and getting first troops out is woefully slow!

I__CHAOS__I · Post by **I__CHAOS__I** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:04 pm

aztec hands down

luukje · Post by **luukje** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:24 pm

Brits and ports are hard to play because of the enormous boom capacities that require
1. Expert judgement on splitting resources into economy (boom) and military
2. More micro needed in economy.
The better the player, the more he will be taking advantage of the manors/extra tc's.

But with the new civs from TWC and TAD, new feature were added and I think that makes these vivs harder to play and master the full range of possibilities:

- the firepit
- stronger - more diverse warchiefs/explorers
- consulate and wonders
- more unique units, allowing way more different strats

With these civsn I think India and Aztec stand out as being the most different and hardest to play.

I dont think anybody uses the full range of possibilities of the new civs, 99% of the players stick to wekk known steady build orders, with little variations;
That being said, nobody uses the full range of euro civs yet. How many player perform livestock booming in standard play? Ottoman irregular, spanish missionaries, how many use surgeons, healers, ...?

Sporting_Lisbon · Post by **Sporting_Lisbon** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:44 pm

Even though the full range isn't used it doesn't mean the strongest strats range isn't.

RascalJones · Post by **RascalJones** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:47 pm

Hey, wait. There's no "All of the above" option for the eternal n00bs like me.

I still can't explain why I like the 3 most difficult civs. Port, Aztec, and India. I agree with luukje that Aztec and India are the most difficult, but I put China and Sioux as pretty difficult too. For someone that likes to play a little defensively, Sioux do not work well at all for that. I haven't tried too hard, but I haven't liked the way I play with China. Iro is easily the most "standard" or "European-like" civ. Japan is close, but the no hunting and shrines make them just a touch different.

So, yeah, either all of the above, or Aztec.

KingKaramazov · Post by **KingKaramazov** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 10:57 pm

[quote=""luukje""]Brits and ports are hard to play because of the enormous boom capacities that require
1. Expert judgement on splitting resources into economy (boom) and military
2. More micro needed in economy.
The better the player, the more he will be taking advantage of the manors/extra tc's.

But with the new civs from TWC and TAD, new feature were added and I think that makes these vivs harder to play and master the full range of possibilities:

- the firepit
- stronger - more diverse warchiefs/explorers
- consulate and wonders
- more unique units, allowing way more different strats

With these civsn I think India and Aztec stand out as being the most different and hardest to play.

I dont think anybody uses the full range of possibilities of the new civs, 99% of the players stick to wekk known steady build orders, with little variations;
That being said, nobody uses the full range of euro civs yet. How many player perform livestock booming in standard play? Ottoman irregular, spanish missionaries, how many use surgeons, healers, ...?[/quote]

A few things:

A) Honestly the firepit isn't very complicated, especially for Aztecs who don't have to use regular villagers with it very often.
B) Warchiefs aren't terribly difficult to use either. In fact, in some cases the Warchiefs make the Natives EASIER to use. Exhibit A: Sioux Warchief with speed aura makes cav raiding WAY easier.
C) I agree with you on the consulate. Export adds another resource and consulates have a variety of options to strategize / choose from.
D) They might have more "unique" units but the majority of them (especially with the Asian civs) are very similar to most of the unit archetypes already in the game. It's not that big of a deal.

India is definitely difficult to use for anyone, but can be very strong if used properly.

Aztec, on the other hand, maybe be more difficult to play at a very high level, but I really don't think it is very difficult to either boom with them in something like a large team game, and their rush isn't very difficult to be successful with either. Just because they are very different from other civs doesn't necessarily mean they are more difficult then all other civs.

Also, as Lisbon said, perhaps players don't use all the options that might be available to them, but it isn't because the experts haven't considered them. Most of the things you mentioned (livestock boom, irregulars, etc) just aren't practical for most game situations. Healers and Surgeons especially just aren't worth it 95% of the time.

In summation: Different =/= Harder

Tatltael · Post by **Tatltael** » Thu Mar 27, 2008 11:20 pm

japan is probably the easiest to play 1v1 i think.. you villagers are near un-raidable > cherry orchards. plus you have those ashi.. >_>

aztec 1v1 is very easy for me to play as..

i <3 their mace/puma rush

but yeah i would have to go w/ brits in 1v1. ports are definitely challenging but if you take map control w/ your extra tc's or fortify your starting tc &add minutemen or whatever, its abit daunting for your opponent X_X also, ports do require abit of introspect in terms of resource management

but the brits are just hard to get the most out of.. ive never watched a nature phoenix replay :X i did play a captain last night on unrated, he told me his strat was like nature phoenix's, (the map was texas), he walled up made a good amount of outposts and threw in that minutemen card, but this took him ~7:30

i already had ~5 coyotes, 5 jags, 5 pumas, and 19 mace, he lost 10 villies.. gg* < i micro'd my mace well i think along with the jags and pumas and left his sorry eco to rot >=D

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