KingK vs Chaos

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KingKaramazov
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KingK vs Chaos

Post by KingKaramazov »

KingKaramazov vs Chaos
Spain vs Ottoman
Map: Andes
Winner: Chaos

Description:
Well, GG I guess. Chaos is on a winning streak, and had great momentum going into this. I give him kudos. To be perfectly honest, though, I was rather disappointed with how this game played out. Map is Andes, I was stuck in a little corner. I killed his explorer early on, making sure to keep him off the TPs. He only got 1, I sent ATP and got two of my own. I aged up with tower + 200 gold, made a barracks, and by the time i had 5 musks queued he was attacking me with 10 or so Janissaries. I did my best to micro vills in and out of the TC, sent res, used militia, whatever....it just wasn't enough. I didn't have very much room to work with since, like I said, I was stuck in a corner. Made it easy for him to trap everything I had, keep me from building stuff up in the back of my base or something.

You'll notice I took out the colonial rod shipments from my deck, that was in anticipation of the upcoming patch, where those shipments will be mostly useless (too few rods to be worth it). This game may have turned out somewhat differently if I had them in there, but I'm really not sure. Rods aren't very good against Janissaries.

I was somewhat frustrated here because it seemed no matter what I did, he kept the Janissaries coming even though he only had 1 TP and I had two, and I killed quite a few of his units early on.

Anyway, I would have liked for this game to be a bit longer and competitive, but Chaos did a good job and rushed me well. I won't take that away from him. Now it's my turn to go off and get owned by Nav / Sporting.

Anyway, I can't say I feel that bad about this game, actually, because I really don't think there was too much more I could have done. I feel like I played my best and simply didn't have much to work with.


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I__CHAOS__I
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Re: KingK vs Chaos

Post by I__CHAOS__I »

only one download?

damn KK, you need to write better game reviews, you scared em all away ;)
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Re: KingK vs Chaos

Post by KingKaramazov »

Wasn't exactly a thrilling game, lol.
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Re: KingK vs Chaos

Post by Soccerman771 »

And it was me (prior to today). I actually watched it two nights ago, thought it was a gg. I got some tips on how to rush better w/ottos 'cus I stink at them. However, I think Spain and Brit's have the hardest time with the pure Jan rush if executed properly..

Nice use of the map to your advantage Chaos.
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Re: KingK vs Chaos

Post by KingKaramazov »

Yea, like I said, the map + the civ combo screwed me. I actually never realized that Spain was so weak against the Jan rush. Guess ya learn something all the time....
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Re: KingK vs Chaos

Post by I__CHAOS__I »

not having the 7 rods did hurt you as well, cuz actually, I was a bit slow in this game, in tests I hit faster... too much pressure in that game ;)
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Re: KingK vs Chaos

Post by HuggyPierre »

Watched it. Good rush!
@KK: Why you didn't build x-bows? Don't actually know if you saw his fb, but maybe you sould have send 2 of your 5 dogs to scout the area better. As spain you should always be aware of a jan rush. But well, game is history. GG.

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Re: KingK vs Chaos

Post by KingKaramazov »

Xbows may have made a difference but I'm not so sure -- by the time I could ahve built them I was already backed into my corner. I haven't had great results with xbows vs Jans anyway unless I can get a large number. Muskets are usually better in smaller numbers (higher damage, range doesn't matter as much in small space).

I really don't think 7 rods would have made a large difference either, Janissaries aren't very susceptible to a low hp unit that does hack damage.

Without a shipment of ranged infantry and no map space to work with I really was kind of borked in this game.

Anyway, Jan rush was one thing I had not dealt with before as Spain. I was more worried about him getting all 3 TPs and being able to get a lot of colonial units with Silk Road than I was about a rush. I thought, wrongly, that a tower + musks / dogs could deal with Janissaries. Even after he started attacking I thought if I could make him take significant losses in attacking me that he would have to back off, but he just kept them coming, even though he only had one TP.

Again, the problem here is that even if I had done some extensive monkey work to survive the rush, like make xbows and gotten up some walls from which to shoot behind, I still would have totally lost map control to him, since my TC had so little space around it. Loss of map control would have been just as good as losing, unless he made a huge mistake.
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Re: KingK vs Chaos

Post by ruminator »

Xbows work well when you have dogs/rods to act as a meatshield. I have found from experience that delaying mm until shipment and batch of 5 xbow being built turn up together is far more effective than just dropping troops out piecemeal, even if you have to sacrifice some houses and your tower while waiting.

You should then be able to at least match him 5 jann-5xbow while increasing your eco through faster settler production.
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Re: KingK vs Chaos

Post by Sporting_Lisbon »

Without rod cards there's no way possible to beat jan rush ^^ If you don't ff (while protecting youserlf from jan rush) otto owns spain hard.

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Re: KingK vs Chaos

Post by KingKaramazov »

FF may have been possible. I'm not sure.

I was playing this more like I would play Spain in 1.01, not relying on rod shipments or FF.

I'm not sure if I could have gotten to Fortress or not in this situation.

As I said before, given the map position I'm pretty skeptical. Andes simply has some pretty retarded map positioning when it has those rivers.
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Re: KingK vs Chaos

Post by Soccerman771 »

Chop wood and build a fence directly around his rax so he couldn't get the jans out. Seems quirky and lame but I have seen it work before. Minute men to kill settlers building rax. Would have delayed the rush quite a bit.
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Re: KingK vs Chaos

Post by I__CHAOS__I »

[quote=""Soccerman771""]Chop wood and build a fence directly around his rax so he couldn't get the jans out. Seems quirky and lame but I have seen it work before. Minute men to kill settlers building rax. Would have delayed the rush quite a bit.[/quote]

not a chance to wall off double rax before otto has units out.

Sending minute men is risky, but can work if you spot the fwd vils on time and if you have the resources for it...

I saw that KK aged with 17 vils because he made 2 extra dogs to kill my explorer, which was a mistake imho. Killing the explorer doesnt do much, and slowing down your age up time vs one of the fastest aging civs is dangerous.
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Re: KingK vs Chaos

Post by KingKaramazov »

I would have had to know for certain that he was rushing and exactly where he was putting his FB in order to do the minutemen thing anywhere near fast enough.

TBH I saw he put up a Trading Post, so I thought he probably wasn't going to try to super fast rush me, rather go for a slightly delayed Silk Road rush.

Maybe I aged a bit slower than I should have but I still must wonder what real difference these small things would have made.

As I've said before, I could have aged up a tiny bit faster, I could have put up some walls to defend better, I could have made extra towers, I could have done this or that, but in the end, he still would have pressured me into the corner, I still wouldn't have had any really strong ways to push off his attacks without losing considerable amounts of villager seconds, and I still would have given him map control, which in the end would have cost me the game.

Barring a big mistake on his part or maybe getting lucky enough to make it to fortress and send some important unit shipments to make him back off, I don't see this game as having turned out differently.
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Re: KingK vs Chaos

Post by I__CHAOS__I »

you may be right about the outcome (your location was terrible), but you can learn from it since u plan on trying spain after the patch ;)
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