New Computer Time

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Cyclohexane
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Re: New Computer Time

Post by Cyclohexane »

Anyone know why nVidia has so many different manufactures? I see the same card produced from PNY, eVGA, ZOGIS, BNG, etc.

Is there any differences?
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Re: New Computer Time

Post by Comadevil »

Because Nvidia wants to sell

Every card has standard layout. Difference can only be cooler, GPU and RAM frequency and maybe the type of ram which was put onto the graphics card

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Cyclohexane
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Re: New Computer Time

Post by Cyclohexane »

^
I asked this question to a few different people and apparently there is one major difference. eVGA offers a 90 day upgrade on all of their cards. I'm thinking about buying an 8800 GTS eVGA, then upgrading within 90 days when the price drops on the 9800 (get same as cash value for what you spent on other card).

OK, I been doing my homework and if you’re in the market or just want to learn something, here is some good info. I was reading about the 9800 GTX and it did not get great reviews. Don't get me wrong, its a good card, but the 8800 Ultra out performs it and on average, only 7% better than a 8800 GTX. Here is a great link:

Toms Hardware
The end result is that Nvidia has taken care of business with this GeForce 9800 GTX. It delivers very good performance, better than the 8800 GTX (by an average of 7%) and close to the 8800 Ultra (especially without antialiasing). The performance is also good enough to put the 8800 GTS 512 MB out of the running, with a little surprise: Despite an identical GPU and similar throughputs (+4% in the raw-processing-power department, +13% for memory bandwidth), the gain in actual gaming is sometimes as much as 40% (average 13%). That's because the GeForce 8 drivers were older at the time of our test, and will catch up when Nvidia finally gets around to updating them (a beta version of ForceWare 174.74 has just been released).
Read the customer forum after if interested. It has some really good comments.

The whole GT, GTS, GTX, crap bothers the crap out of me and if it wasn't the best brand on the market, I wouldn't even consider them based on this confusing marketing. Why can't they call it a 1, 2, 3, etc. You literally have to study to know what’s going on.

Here is what is boils down to, a 9800 gives 7% better performance for 181% more cost (can get 8800 GTX on sale after mail in rebate for $160, cheapest I can find 9800 GTX is $290 after mail in). If I buy the eVGA (which allows upgrade in 90 days) at Frys for $200, I can possibly upgrade if the price on the 9800 drops from bad reviews.

Now here is my other dilemma, I can buy two 8800 GTX for the same price as a 9800 GTX. But then I have to buy an SLI motherboard (about $100 more) and a better power supply to handle both cards (about $50 more) and only get on average about 25% better performance. SLI seems to be an overpriced gimmick for rich folks. Sure you get better performance but it is not linear (double cards does not equal double performance) but the cost is exponential. 2 cards, higher priced motherboard, higher priced power supply, more heat in your system, etc.

After all of this, I think I’m going to buy a 650W power supply with a decent single card motherboard (that you suggested). I can then buy the 8800 GTX and upgrade it in 90 days if the price drops on the 9800 GTX. I’ll wind up spending about $700 (after Vista Pro but includes card) but have a sweet a$$ system that can grow a little in the future.
I’m going to wait until Friday when the promotions come out at Frys before I order online. I’ll be out of town all next week (will have time to upgrade Quick Reference Guide), so when I come back, I should be able to put it all together!

I’ll also spec everything out and post the prices / where bought for future N3O reference.
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StrokeyBlofeld
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Re: New Computer Time

Post by StrokeyBlofeld »

Aha, methinks cyclo is finaly understanding the graphics card market!!! lol.
Yes, SLI really is a rich mans game and mainly for bragging rights. ATI's crossfire is a far superior set-up, but the downfall is ATI cards are not as good as Nvidia cards, so for about the same price of an Nvidia card, you can get 2 ATI cards and run them in crossfire for the same-ish performance as a single Nvidia card!!!

EVGA are a good brand to buy, and their 90 day "free" upgrade (free as in full cost of your current card deducted) is a pretty good deal. I as tempted by this myself a little while ago.

Good move getting a single card MOBO too.

Oh, and I'm glad you were using Toms Hardware for reference, it's a great site for research purposes.

Be sure to take some pics of your build and post them up!!!

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Re: New Computer Time

Post by ruminator »

Crossfire and SLI are for the very rich and show offs only - and you need a transparent case with water cooling and loads of neon lights if you want to make the most of it!!!

The 8800 is a fine card - it will do everything most mortals require of it.
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Re: New Computer Time

Post by Cyclohexane »

[quote=""Comadevil""]

A-DATA 4GB(2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory Model ADQVE1B16K

$77.99

GIGABYTE GA-P35-DS3L LGA 775 Intel P35 ATX All Solid Capacitor Intel Motherboard

$89.99

[/quote]

I'm currently on travel for work and have not purchased some of the main components yet. Fortunately, I have had time to do a ton of research and still on the edge of what to do. Here is what I have purchased so far:

Intel Quadcore Q6600 (64 bit 2.4GHz):
$190

Maxtor L01F500 500GB (SATAII -3.0 GB/sec, 16MB buffer, 7200 RPM, 3 Year Warranty):
$90

Antec Nine Hundred Gaming Case
$80

Vista Home Premium (64 bit, etc.)
$99

I have not purchased RAM or a powersupply because I am still deciding on the best mother board for my system. I know SLI is not worth the money, but this board has good reviews, offers SLI and PCI 2.0 and costs $149:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... _-13131232

I can get Kingston RAM (240 pin 800MHz 2GB each) for $99 (4GB total and take 2 slots) and I verified it works on this board up to 8GB.

Then I can get an Antec 650W power supply with 120mm fan (quite) for $120 (an 850W for $150). However, 650W means SLI would only work on some of the cards (like an 8800 GT). Here is a cool link for determining power needs:

Antec
This 650W would have plenty of current available on the 3 12V rails for SLI (if I decided I wanted it later). I know, SLI is not better than the newest generation card (up to 40% better if all the stars and planets align) but in another year, an 8800 GT may only cost $100 and I could get a 25% to 40% low cost boost…


So then I go back to the board you choose, with the memory you choose and I have already saved $80. I'd probably keep the Antec power supply for that system as well. I know 650W would be overkill but its a good price and a brand I trust that has never burned me. The only problem I have with the board you choose is it does not have firewire.

I use firewire all the time. My external drive I use for backup is firewire and my digital camera also supports firewire. I do not want to add an extra PCI card if I can get firewire right off the bat. The ASUS board above does have firewire...

So many choices I’m going crazy. Do any of you guys have another suggestion for a motherboard with firewire and all the features needed for current hardware?


EDIT: Thinking about this some more, the PCIe 2.0 may not be useful now, but I just spoke with an eVGA rep that told me this. Think of a highway with a speed limit of 90 mph and all the cars can go 90mph and then the speed limit is jumped to 200 mph but all the cards still go 90mph. Buying PCIe 2.0 future proofs somewhat since when the new cards come out that do go 200 mph, I won't have to upgrade the motherboard. Getting a 650W PS would also ensure I could support those new cards. I would probably never use the SLI feature (unless I bought an old card for almost free), but I do not have to, it still has PCIe 2.0.

I could also get an 850W power supply for $20 more but it has an 80mm fan (louder). This would allow me to SLI future cards, but I will probably never do that anyway. Is the extra 200W worth the extra $20 and louder fan? Using the calcultor above, with conservative estimates (using power supply for years and capacitor wear), even if I SLI with 100% usage (never is everything at 100%), it claims a 651W PS is all I would ever need with two 8800 GT cards. I think I answered this question, but I would like some other opinions.

I'm really banging my head on the wall right now, thoughts, advice, opinions???
Last edited by Cyclohexane on Wed Apr 09, 2008 11:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New Computer Time

Post by StrokeyBlofeld »

That's not a bad board, and the price is good too. I prefer the Asus P5K range, some of their "lifestyle" models offer everything you would need, but obviously come at a premium.

The power supply you've chosen is a really good one, you can't go wrong with Antec when it comes to power supplies. It is also a modualr model meaning better cable management and better airflow through the case.

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Re: New Computer Time

Post by Comadevil »

I wouldn't spend additional 60$ just to have PCIE 2.0, because for me personally this is to expensive. Because when i upgrade the card i can usually buy a mainboard with a better chipset for just a bit more and other features like new CPUs etc. and i have a board left which i can use for selling or upgrade the comp of my wife ;)

i would buy a seagate drive if it cost the same as Maxtor because the drives are the same and seagate has 5 year warranty

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Re: New Computer Time

Post by Cyclohexane »

[quote=""Comadevil""]I wouldn't spend additional 60$ just to have PCIE 2.0, because for me personally this is to expensive. Because when i upgrade the card i can usually buy a mainboard with a better chipset for just a bit more and other features like new CPUs etc. and i have a board left which i can use for selling or upgrade the comp of my wife ;)

i would buy a seagate drive if it cost the same as Maxtor because the drives are the same and seagate has 5 year warranty[/quote]

It’s too late for that. I appreciate the advice but I placed my order last night. It’s not just $60 for PCI-E 2.0, its $60 for PCI-e 2.0, firewire, and not having to research compatable RAM, CPU, etc. again. I am done researching, and time for action. I am hoping it will arrive Saturday so I can put it together this weekend. I haven’t played a video game in about a month now. The good news is, my hands are no longer shaking :)

I choose the Maxtor because it was an excellent deal. I got a 500GB (SATA 2, 16MB buffer, 7200 RPM) for about the same price as the 250GB Seagate (~$20 more after taxes paid and if I had to pay for shipping). I’ve used Maxtor many times and had them work well over 5 years so I am not worried about the 3 year warranty.

I don’t feel bad about the motherboard either. I’m currently on work travel and will make a few hundred extra just for that. I’ll just go to taco bell tonight instead of prime rib. I’d rather be rewarded with electronics than food any day!

It may have cost $60 more but it is an ASUS and has some good write ups (I read all comments at Newegg and a few hardware reviews) as long as you download the new drivers first (don’t install from CD). I will use all the other features on the board as well (except SLI). Who knows, in 2 years I may upgrade my video card to one that needs PCIe-2.0 and won’t have to change out the motherboard, CPU, etc. or may buy another used 8800 GT from eBay cheap from a guy that wants to upgrade (then can SLI). Either way, it will be a very nice setup for the next few years.

As soon as I get everything delivered and put together, I’ll post some pics and the total price / links for anyone interested. Thanks for all the help!
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Re: New Computer Time

Post by Comadevil »

[quote=""Cyclohexane""]
It may have cost $60 more but it is an ASUS

....

I will use all the other features on the board as well (except SLI). Who knows, in 2 years I may upgrade my video card to one that needs PCIe-2.0

...

Thanks for all the help![/quote]

ASUS: ASUS isn't IMO the No1 manufacturer for mainboards anymore. Gigabyte has overtaken them. Same quality as ASUS but better support. In Germany they have a great support forum for their customers.

PCIE 2.0: In 2 years u have PCIE 3.0 :D , but of course 2.0 will still be then still sufficient. But if u need the other features then the MB u have chosen is of course the better choice

Help: u are welcome

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Re: New Computer Time

Post by StrokeyBlofeld »

Gigabyte has always been pretty top notch with motherboards, I think Asus has improved greatly over the years. I always use to pick Gigabyte but recently have changed to Asus as the features were better on the particular board I wanted.
Not much to choose between them though IMO.

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