N3O Age Of Empires and Starcraft 2 Clan

True. Still, being able to get the villager upgrades faster, and having them be wood based, helps Otto a lot especially on maps like Borneo and Hispaniola.

I doubt otto can do both on water maps...

Maybe not right away, but much more easily than before. The point is, Otto certainly aren't any weaker on water maps, in fact they may be a bit stronger on water maps, and they were already very strong. Your point about having less starting wood is well taken, though.

otto -100 wood is big nerf for water boom too
that's 2.5 schooner ships less

-.-

Lot's to process there, but, as an Aztec player I'm really excited by it.

The warchief aura is a yo-yo! Up from x2 to x3 and then back down to x2 again! But notice, this isn't a nerf because the founder BB has suddenly become ridiculously cheap - and that doubles effectiveness of warchief aura! Nice move, all us Aztec players will suddenly be learning where the founder dance BB is! .

Again, the firepit looks fine. I have no problem with them nerfing a few of the dances a bit if War Priests are going to be 25% cheaper. And, they don't seemed to have nerfed the Gift Dance! Guess how I'll be using my firepit then!

Coyotes train faster. V. nice!

But OMGosh I can't believe what they've done to Maces!!! Yay!!! Increasing the HI modifier from x1.5 to x2 is a *HUGE* deal.

Plus, check out what they've done to the age ups. They're now a big deal too. 2 Skull Knights instead of 1! Plus, you get a War Hut Travois at Coloniel. I've mainly been playing the 2 Warhut card as my first Coloniel card when rushing. Now I can send that Travois, and spend that card on a military shipment instead.


Aztec age 2 are looking deadly. They've given me more kick with that extra Skull Knight/War hut. Plus, with that Mace upgrade I can now cut through HI civs. IMO, Eagles were on their way out anyway, and this patch finishes them. But, with the Ruthlessness upgrade, Coyotes are the new Eagles for raiding.

I am very interested in what this patch means for Jaguars - particularly when trained from the War Chief. At the moment, they're too expensive to use.

Jesus holy wow dunno what to say. There really is 8 pages of balance changes. Sight for sore eyes. Spain play usage will be like 1-2% now. Ports... sweet lord! 3.0 ROF + more HP = like 50% better unit + good hussars too.

Crazyness. I dunno who i'm gonna play but i'm liking france right about now.

Erm kk your views on china.....they are a good civ now, and disciples kicked too much ass they are much better now, and yh the wondrs aint too good!

Good patch imo probs one of the best that ES has made, well with Np and Ourk on the team i can see why!!

Dutch maybe a piece to slwo at starting now

very pleased that one type of unit spam will not kick so much ass anymore! liek skirm spam did, it owned cav and that was soo annoying

I'm thinking that civ's that can manage a good infantry + cav mix early in the game will do well. It will be interesting to see how civs with a tough cav game pan out. Overall pretty good I think though. Not sure what to think about the random ottoman changes -- they really seem random LOL.

China will still be a decent civ, but really the only thing that made them remarkable before were disciples + hand mortars, and neither of those are really in play anymore.

China will still lose to civs that can mass cavalry easily, especially now that cavalry is much more effective against large groups of ranged units.

Drew, Spain may not be used that much but I don't think they have really been weakened all that much. If you think about it, their main units actually received a lot of indirect boosts. Spain's playing style will change a fair amount, but they will at least be as strong as the rest of the mid-tier civs, I'd say.

France, on the other hand, is probably disadvantaged now even more so before they go to the late game.

Ports, Germans, and Russians are in a much better state than they were previously. Although I must say for Russia I'm not convinced they will be able to deal with cav still, but at least they have Manchus and Cav. Archers anyway for Age 3.

The civs that will take some watching will be Sioux, Iro, and Otto. Sioux may be fine, or they may be a lot weaker. Iro and Otto might be a lot weaker, or they may just be a lot different.

Aztecs are looking very good atm. India and Japan also have gained a lot from this patch -- hardly any nerfs and some significant boosts, plus the weakening of the former top civs will put them in a great position.

I really hope we're not gonna see too many Ports now... CM FF still works and cassas are now much more useful, where most other FF civs got hit hard on their FF (iro, sioux, spa)

Yea, and with cav being more powerful, Dragoons will be even more useful. Plus, now Ports can effectively use Hussars as well!

Nevertheless, the Ports didn't receive any boosts to their early game economy so they will still be slow starters.

Plus, Besteiros kind of got nerfed since they won't have as high an attack anymore.

I'm worried about Japan being the new Dutch. Even without hunts shrines might be able to give you a pretty good economy now, and the Japanese already were notorious for camping in their base / being very difficult to raid.

On the flip side at least xbow civs will have a little bit easier time dealing with Ashigaru (though Ashi speed is still an issue) and Yumis won't be as effective at killing basically everything.

Don't forget that caças hp on ranged remained the same pls.

Yea, Cassadores are much improved, although they do less damage.

Overall, especially considering their cost and the slight nerf to FPs and increase in Wakina cost, they might be one of the new strongest skirm units.

Of course, skirms will be less dominant so it won't be as important.

Ugh this is so annoying AgeSanc won't let me view any topics! "Server too busy" over and over.