Japanese Shrines

General Discussion about Age of Empires III: Definitive Edition

Moderators: Global Moderator, Age Moderator

KingKaramazov
Brigadier
Brigadier
Posts: 1216
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2007 12:12 pm
Location: Boston, MA
Contact:

Re: Japanese Shrines

Post by KingKaramazov »

Well, the Dutch are a poor example since their economy is particularly easy to defend, in fact, almost unraidable.

But if you look at a civ like the Ottomans (again, I think the parallel is a pertinent one to draw to Japan) their economy is very easily raided and quite fragile, since it takes a longer time to replace villagers.

Also, yes, it's true that other civs can just build their houses near their TC but their houses are still very easy to kill, unless you're talking about Britain or Iroquois. The British also are somewhat encouraged to spread out their manors all over the place, though, so it's not a big deal.

The fact that the Japanese economy is difficult to defend just means that the Japanese are forced to be on the offensive and to have mobile units ready to defend their shrines (think fast-moving Naginatas and Ashigaru, etc). It's more an aspect of their civ. as opposed to a glaring weakness, if you ask me.


Overall, I would wholeheartedly disagree with the statement that "no other civ has to defend part of its eco like Japan." Consider that Japanese villagers are always hanging about around their TC collecting berries and then consider the fact that most other civs have to spread their villagers out hunting etc, and things actually seem rather even. Indeed, shrines are actually a bit harder to kill than a group of villagers that dies pretty quickly. So, in that regard, the Japanese economy is actually a bit more difficult to raid since the Japanese rarely if ever have villagers scattered around the map (besides on gold mines).
"Why are some people all grasshopper fiddlings, scrappings, all antennae shivering, one big ganglion eternally knotting, slip-knotting, square-knotting themselves?  They stoke a furnace all their lives, sweat their lips, shine their ey

User avatar
Comadevil
Administrator
Administrator
Posts: 2118
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2007 4:55 am
AOE3 Nickname: Comadevil

Re: Japanese Shrines

Post by Comadevil »

Agree with King.

Villagers stay around their TC because you can get with a card 2x2 cherry orchards worth 18000 food + 4500 respectively 9000 food at the beginning with starting orchards.
Also else Japan would be able to turtle easily with its strong units. So they have to take the initiative and be aggressive (like in history they have been).

Though on water and halfwater maps turtling is an option because u are not so dependent on shrines. You just use fisherboats to close the villi gap to other civs. Though i haven't tried yet to turtle.

StrokeyBlofeld
Clan Leader
Clan Leader
Posts: 2822
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2007 3:36 am
Location: Bristol UK
Contact:

Re: Japanese Shrines

Post by StrokeyBlofeld »

You do have some good points there king, although you can't garrison a shrine in a tower or TC. (lol).
I think this is getting a little off the point in the fact that we were originaly talking about shrines getting a small boost on the base rate (with no hunts).
Vills can herd hunts to their TC or outpost, and when they run out they can use mills in a reasonably safe place. If shrines run out of hunts they are almost dead except for providing pop space, taking into consideration that most maps you must go quite far across the map to get hunts for your shrines after you've built 2 or 3.
Although, I imagine you will argue that that is a tactic, to raise shrines and kill the hunts there............

KingKaramazov
Brigadier
Brigadier
Posts: 1216
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2007 12:12 pm
Location: Boston, MA
Contact:

Re: Japanese Shrines

Post by KingKaramazov »

Well, I think it just means that map control is of prime importance for the Japanese (as it is with any other civ.) Again, Japanese players should be strongly discouraged from simply hanging out in their base and building their economy without attacking.

Giving Japanese players the ability to do that more easily would be problematic as stated before since their units are so strong.

Yea, it sucks for a Japanese player if there are no hunts near their TC, but the same can be said for anybody else. Plus, as much as you herd hunts back towards your TC, if you have to send your villagers out to hunt any significant distance from your TC, then they are at risk of being killed.

Also remember that villagers hunting are usually in groups of at least 3-5. Losing that group of villagers is a lot more costly than losing one shrine. Compared 300-500 food with 135 wood. Also remember that those 3-5 villagers are a much more productive and important part of your economy than that one shrine, and you get some perspective.

The Japanese economy really doesn't seem so fragile in that light compared to some other civs. Yea, they're no Dutch or Ports with TCs all over the place or unraidable banks, but things could be worse.
"Why are some people all grasshopper fiddlings, scrappings, all antennae shivering, one big ganglion eternally knotting, slip-knotting, square-knotting themselves?  They stoke a furnace all their lives, sweat their lips, shine their ey

Post Reply