Using Warchief, etc. for age 1 hassling

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Sun_Tzu1
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Using Warchief, etc. for age 1 hassling

Post by Sun_Tzu1 »

What do you guys do with your warchiefs age 1?

Often, after getting some treasures, I'll take him to my opponent's side and attack a settler, a house, or their TC.

I'm trying to get some info on wha|t they're up to; just being aggressive; and, I actually want them to try to attack my WC. If he's attacked with TC fire I put him in cover mode and let him mop up as much of it as possible. Then, when he's low on hp, I'll move him out of range to recover. Basically, I figure if he's being fired on that's resources not being collected and a slower age 2 for them if they haven't started researching it yet. That gives me more time to establish a forward and build units.

Does that sound fair? What do you guys think?

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I__CHAOS__I
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Re: Using Warchief, etc. for age 1 hassling

Post by I__CHAOS__I »

sounds bad ;)
with 10 vils inside your explorer will be dead in no time, plus he gets free xp in return.
Keep him alive, scout the whole map so you see all hunts, which help locating your opponents hunters later (you see the dead animals through the fog of war)
the warchiefs are too valuable to waste. Even the normal explorers are a good meatshield to absord enemy unit fire.
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kingchrisII
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Re: Using Warchief, etc. for age 1 hassling

Post by kingchrisII »

O man that really bigs me when playing, just the conctant attacking noise when its only an explorer, i just leave him usually, and then own him when my units are made, snd thats 45 or 100xp free for me :)

its completely fair imo, but rather pointless lol better off trying for other treasures or searching for vills for raiding

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Re: Using Warchief, etc. for age 1 hassling

Post by RascalJones »

If a warchief/explorer attacks my villager, I just let him go.

At most, they'll do 3 damage to a villager. 12 ranged damage with .25 bonus (=.75 penalty). 3 damage. With 150 HP, that's 50 hits to kill a villager. The Aztec & Sioux WC have only 1.5 melee damage vs vills, and villies get 20% hand resistance, so it's essentially 1.3 damage vs vills for a WC in age 1.

(Is my math right? Cyclo? Anyone?)

Sun_Tzu1
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Re: Using Warchief, etc. for age 1 hassling

Post by Sun_Tzu1 »

I think it's fair enough to just let the WC attack your villager under normal circumstances - if he isn't accompanied by converted guardians. Probably a good idea. However, I'd just check he hasn't shipped the WC upgrade. If you're not paying attention, you might end up loosing a settler - although that's probably not the end of the world even if you do!

Chaos, your advice seems fair. But, to put it in perspective, my WC has 500 hp age 1, and 750 age 2. With 10 villagers housed you'll dish out 90 pts damage. However, if I put my WC in cover mode that's just 45 damage (I think), plus I have 10% ranged resistance. So, I reckon you're talking about 11 or 12 shots (age 1) or 17 or 18 shots (age 2) to kill him. Multiply that by x3 game seconds and that's a big commitment to have 10 villagers tied up in your TC when they could be gathering resources. Plus there's the walk to the TC and back out again for the settlers. I think you might be looking at something like 300 fd you've not collected by doing that. Plus, while you may kill him, he may walk out of your range and you won't even have the kill XP. That's all worse case though.

Basically, I played a Siox player some time ago of a much higher rank than me. He came close to my TC so I took the opportunity to house up. On that occassion, I actually managed to kill his WC. Naturally, I thought I'd achieved something, but he messaged me in game to tell me it wasn't a good move.

Makes you think.

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I__CHAOS__I
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Re: Using Warchief, etc. for age 1 hassling

Post by I__CHAOS__I »

well usually your chief will have lost some HP from treasure hunting or battling other explorer(s), and a couple of TC hits will take him down.
Putting him in cover mode is not a bad idea, but then again, it seems like a waste of micro & time for no real benifit, where he could be getting another treasure and converting more guardians. Warchiefs are really a BIG bonus, don't waste it. (and you need to dance em back, can't ransom them)
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Sun_Tzu1
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Re: Using Warchief, etc. for age 1 hassling

Post by Sun_Tzu1 »

Watch the start of this one to see what I mean. Just played it.

(Hmmm, I've put in in recorded games because don't think I can post it here).

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Tatltael
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Re: Using Warchief, etc. for age 1 hassling

Post by Tatltael »

the warchiefs can become a tank late-game, (if it should progress) if you play sioux/aztec/ iroquois i would highly advise you to upgrade them to full extent, plus a full firepit with the warchief dance.

but to answer your question, the answer is no- it is ill-advised to attempt harassing villies with your warchief in discovery, just use nature friendship as much as possible plus+treasures.

colonial is a different story, if you throw on the warchief upgrade to enable pets from your warchief, you'll give your army a powerful component, which can quickly turn a battle in your favor

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Re: Using Warchief, etc. for age 1 hassling

Post by Cyclohexane »

[quote=""RascalJones""]If a warchief/explorer attacks my villager, I just let him go.

At most, they'll do 3 damage to a villager. 12 ranged damage with .25 bonus (=.75 penalty). 3 damage. With 150 HP, that's 50 hits to kill a villager. The Aztec & Sioux WC have only 1.5 melee damage vs vills, and villies get 20% hand resistance, so it's essentially 1.3 damage vs vills for a WC in age 1.

(Is my math right? Cyclo? Anyone?)[/quote]

Your numbers are right. This is never a good idea, explorers should be exploring, gathering treasures, but not attacking houses / villagers. Converted pets are just as useless versus villagers (same penalty) and villagers actually counter "true" pets very well getting a bonus versus them. For damage information in any age with any upgrade, check out my Unit Comparison spreadsheet. It has explorers and pets as well.

The one exception is if the opponent has some un-guarded TPs (that do not fire back) and basing his early economy on it (Ottoman / Japan). Sending an explorer over there can force your opponent to split his army because after a while, it will come down and the alarm will be a distraction.

Another exception is the Iroquois WC with Town Destroyer card sent. He can do some major siege but it is rare this card should be sent over other more useful shipments. I have used it successfully in team games with France (early skirmishers) and needing some siege.
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wreckoning
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Re: Using Warchief, etc. for age 1 hassling

Post by wreckoning »

If you have a full pet army, they are good for attacking forward villagers; if the villagers try to build their FB you will kill one vill or perhaps even two, or if they attack back you will be slowing them from getting the FB up. Or sometimes if you have a rescued unit like a Cree Tracker or Iroquois tomahawk and you're on a map where the hunts may be really far from your opponent's base (like GP), you can go harrass his furthest hunters... you probably won't kill one but you should be able to take at least one off the hunt and he may even make the mistake of retreating all vills from this hunt.

But I would never attack a house or TC. You really don't gain very much from this; a smart opponent will first kill your entire treasure army and then work on your explorer. If he manages to kill your explorer it's completely worth those resources he missed out on. Because now you don't know what he is doing or building in early game, very important information to you. And if you have a really good explorer, like the Spanish explorer or a native Warchief, then you miss out on all the benefits they offer you early game.
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