T v Z early starport builds

[deadhanddan]

on a lot of streams , i see ( in grandmasters league ) many Zerg fast expanding into muta spam with a bit of zergling harass.

in response , the Terrans ( who scouted properly ) almost always either bioball push with tank supprt usually a couple medivacs - the usual , or bunker down  and attempt to tech into starport for a quick banshee harass while massing turrets ( almost none of those Terran players will attempt Vikings for obvious reasons )

my question is that i have been favoring the idea of following the standard Terran counter build to the Zerg FE into muta with the bunker/starport build - but with instead of an early banshee which often proves futile and a massive waste of early gas and tech time - open with an initial viking for overlord haras , scouting main , and easier transition into viking spam vs. a muta spammathon


i have been out of the loop of SC strategy for a while  , and instead of trying my luck with strat attempts in ladder games (was silver league last year lol go figure ) i thought it'd be easier and a safer bet to ask opinions here from people from EU and NA...

if nothing else , it would save wasting 300 sum odd gas and tech time for a single unit that often goes unusable for various reasons , and enable overlord hunting depriving Zerg of LoS as well as supply  - sees more beneficial against early and midgame than suiciding banshee to kill small handfulls of drones


what are your guy's thoughts?


- Dan

[Aaryn_GenD]

early ivkings are completely useless vs z, especiallly vs muta, utas laugh at vikings. if he'd theoretically see you mass vikings, he would just go ufulol roach and blow you away. wha don't oyu like about banshees? if icroed right he cannopt destroy them, as he can't have antiair units or mutalisks well after lair and droning. queens are the only threat and youcan easily fly away if you're low on haelth. i also used banshees to snipe banelings lol. the unit composition you described earlier that you saw on streams is the way to go.
if you really wanna use vikings, then ujust build one early game for scouting and harassing overlords, you mass them lategame vs Corrupters/Broodlords

[deadhanddan]

the overseer upgrade for an overlord isn't much , and is now cheaper since recent patches , making cloak useless vs. a 2-3 base Zerg

the viking opening , if done right , would get the Terran a viking out faster than a Zerg could muta , harassment of the overlord would mean bigger chunks of lost resources and additionally : supply  - hindering the Zerg more so than picking off a few drones and eventually facing massed muta , with nothing more than stimmed marine and a few turrets .... ultimately forcing a Terran into a turtle mode and prolonging things all in favor of a Zerg teching up too broodlords and infestor fungal growth spams

[Aaryn_GenD]

no banshees are never useless, even if he gets lair and an overseer, he cannot drone and has to tech
also going lair takes time, he'Ll mostlikely get an evo chamber and spore crawlers. and he doesn't know when you stop making banshees. you could even do uncloaked banshees and not commit so hard, anyting is possible

[jerom]

Nowadays Reactor helion build seems the way to go.

About vikings vs Z, I personally think vikings will become an essential part in the mid game vs Zerg, but only if Zerg is going ling infestor. Use the vikings to snipe out all overlords providing vision and then just drop insanely much. So far that is still being discovered imo

[HeJurmhoanni]

Personally, banshees have always been really easy to deal with as zerg.

For general advice for TvZ take a look at my reply here: 5789/need-help/

About the viking, one viking is sometimes used to first scout what the zerg is doing and then to start harassing overlords. The timing would be guite good at about the time when you have your second siege tank and siege mode started. It will be well before any mutas are possible but not too early to slow down your important tech and macro.

[jerom]

I think you should get even 2-3 vikings to clear up ovies against Ling infestor. I can't really achieve that because my drop micro isnt that awesome, but I wanna see other people do it

[HeJurmhoanni]

Yeah lategame you should have 2 reactor starports no matter what and you can even make some vikings preparing for broodlord cause theyre so common. If they go ground instead you can use those vikings to harass far away axpos and overlords.

[deadhanddan]

^ true , nice advice Hejurm


it sucks as of now , i mainly just use a viking or two as spotters for my tank line HAHAHA



medicavs are too valuable , vikings are just dirt mech that can't catch anything cept broodlords

don't mind if they get shot down TBH , stimmed marine/thor are better anti air anyways