N3O Age Of Empires and Starcraft 2 Clan

I find that there is not so bad lag in EU server on Bnet 2.0. That itself is a far much vastly better than Bnet 1.0 as whenever I log on 1.0 nowdays, I always find full red lags due my country's long distance. So a big thumbs up for Bnet 2.0.

[quote=""StrokeyBlofeld""]Cross-realm play isn't impossible, I just think as pointed out it would be very costly and not too practical at the moment. I see lots of references to how "it worked just fine before", and this may be so, but you also have to consider the differences in technological tolerance. eg: 10 years ago, most people were on a dial up connection, it was quite acceptable to wait for 20 seconds or so for a web page to load, and it was expected that you would experience a substantial amount of lag spread over the course of an entire multi-player game whether it was hosted on a server or it was p2p. These days, if people have to wait for more that 2 or 3 seconds for a web page to load, they get impatient and close the page, if a game takes to long (15-30 seconds) to load people will leave and try to start another game, if there is the slightest bit of lag, people complain like mad etc etc. So, we are now far more aware of how the internet and connections are made, and what is possible, and what is capable, and so as a result we seem to be at a stage where we how no tolerance for even the slightest lag or jitter, and it is because of this that decisions such as cross continental play are either dismissed as too much of a risk or too costly to run and maintain, or just too problematic to service constantly. Also remember that the number of players using such services are massively more than 10 years ago as well.[/quote]

A couple of key points from my perspective:


a) It should be my decision whether I want to try to deal with that lag, not Blizzard's.

b) I'm not convinced there are that many more people playing SC2 now than SC1 back in its heyday, or WC3 in its heyday. Even if there are, Blizzard has vastly more resources than they had back then. I really don't buy the server load argument. It hasn't been a problem in the past numbers wise, I see no reason why it would be a problem now.


As for the technology, the fact that it is possible to buy a EU copy of the game as a NA player and play games on that server, or visa versa, makes clear that it is technologically possible.

There are many other games out there that allow people to play with people across the world, in many different kinds of games and on any console you could name. In view of that, it's very difficult for me to believe that it's not realistic for SC2 players to have similar freedom.

[quote=""KingKaramazov""][quote=""StrokeyBlofeld""]Cross-realm play isn't impossible, I just think as pointed out it would be very costly and not too practical at the moment. I see lots of references to how "it worked just fine before", and this may be so, but you also have to consider the differences in technological tolerance. eg: 10 years ago, most people were on a dial up connection, it was quite acceptable to wait for 20 seconds or so for a web page to load, and it was expected that you would experience a substantial amount of lag spread over the course of an entire multi-player game whether it was hosted on a server or it was p2p. These days, if people have to wait for more that 2 or 3 seconds for a web page to load, they get impatient and close the page, if a game takes to long (15-30 seconds) to load people will leave and try to start another game, if there is the slightest bit of lag, people complain like mad etc etc. So, we are now far more aware of how the internet and connections are made, and what is possible, and what is capable, and so as a result we seem to be at a stage where we how no tolerance for even the slightest lag or jitter, and it is because of this that decisions such as cross continental play are either dismissed as too much of a risk or too costly to run and maintain, or just too problematic to service constantly. Also remember that the number of players using such services are massively more than 10 years ago as well.[/quote]

A couple of key points from my perspective:


a) It should be my decision whether I want to try to deal with that lag, not Blizzard's.

b) I'm not convinced there are that many more people playing SC2 now than SC1 back in its heyday, or WC3 in its heyday. Even if there are, Blizzard has vastly more resources than they had back then. I really don't buy the server load argument. It hasn't been a problem in the past numbers wise, I see no reason why it would be a problem now.


As for the technology, the fact that it is possible to buy a EU copy of the game as a NA player and play games on that server, or visa versa, makes clear that it is technologically possible.

There are many other games out there that allow people to play with people across the world, in many different kinds of games and on any console you could name. In view of that, it's very difficult for me to believe that it's not realistic for SC2 players to have similar freedom.[/quote]

You purchased the game knowing that it didn't, and may not support cross region play and then argue you should have the right to choose?
If they take the advice of those who want cross region play and games experience lag, is that really fair on those who purchased the game knowing there wan't cross region play and don't want cross region pay?
I never said that it wasn't possible to implement, I just said that making it so, servicing and maintaining it may not be in their best interest financially?
Server load is obviously going to be an issue with the number of players we are talking about, even more so when you consider the amount of money they would have to put into new servers.
If you are not convinced that the number of players now in comparison to 8 or 10 years ago, then I think we will just disagree here. I think the numbers are hugely different.
As for there being many other games out there that support cross region play, lets cut it down to the games that you don't have to "pay to play online". Once we have done that, lets look at the support such as continual patching and updating, and then lets look at how many players they constantly average on their servers.

I'm not supporting Blizzards decision here, far from it. I would love nothing more than to see cross region play implemented. It would be a huge boost for many reasons other than just for clans like us with many members across the different regions. I'm just trying to put across that it's not such a clear cut simple solution that you seem to think it is.

[quote=""StrokeyBlofeld""][quote=""KingKaramazov""][quote=""StrokeyBlofeld""]Cross-realm play isn't impossible, I just think as pointed out it would be very costly and not too practical at the moment. I see lots of references to how "it worked just fine before", and this may be so, but you also have to consider the differences in technological tolerance. eg: 10 years ago, most people were on a dial up connection, it was quite acceptable to wait for 20 seconds or so for a web page to load, and it was expected that you would experience a substantial amount of lag spread over the course of an entire multi-player game whether it was hosted on a server or it was p2p. These days, if people have to wait for more that 2 or 3 seconds for a web page to load, they get impatient and close the page, if a game takes to long (15-30 seconds) to load people will leave and try to start another game, if there is the slightest bit of lag, people complain like mad etc etc. So, we are now far more aware of how the internet and connections are made, and what is possible, and what is capable, and so as a result we seem to be at a stage where we how no tolerance for even the slightest lag or jitter, and it is because of this that decisions such as cross continental play are either dismissed as too much of a risk or too costly to run and maintain, or just too problematic to service constantly. Also remember that the number of players using such services are massively more than 10 years ago as well.[/quote]

A couple of key points from my perspective:


a) It should be my decision whether I want to try to deal with that lag, not Blizzard's.

b) I'm not convinced there are that many more people playing SC2 now than SC1 back in its heyday, or WC3 in its heyday. Even if there are, Blizzard has vastly more resources than they had back then. I really don't buy the server load argument. It hasn't been a problem in the past numbers wise, I see no reason why it would be a problem now.


As for the technology, the fact that it is possible to buy a EU copy of the game as a NA player and play games on that server, or visa versa, makes clear that it is technologically possible.

There are many other games out there that allow people to play with people across the world, in many different kinds of games and on any console you could name. In view of that, it's very difficult for me to believe that it's not realistic for SC2 players to have similar freedom.[/quote]

You purchased the game knowing that it didn't, and may not support cross region play and then argue you should have the right to choose?
If they take the advice of those who want cross region play and games experience lag, is that really fair on those who purchased the game knowing there wan't cross region play and don't want cross region pay?
I never said that it wasn't possible to implement, I just said that making it so, servicing and maintaining it may not be in their best interest financially?
Server load is obviously going to be an issue with the number of players we are talking about, even more so when you consider the amount of money they would have to put into new servers.
If you are not convinced that the number of players now in comparison to 8 or 10 years ago, then I think we will just disagree here. I think the numbers are hugely different.
As for there being many other games out there that support cross region play, lets cut it down to the games that you don't have to "pay to play online". Once we have done that, lets look at the support such as continual patching and updating, and then lets look at how many players they constantly average on their servers.

I'm not supporting Blizzards decision here, far from it. I would love nothing more than to see cross region play implemented. It would be a huge boost for many reasons other than just for clans like us with many members across the different regions. I'm just trying to put across that it's not such a clear cut simple solution that you seem to think it is.[/quote]

Oh come on now, I'm supposed to just not buy the game because it's missing a feature like cross-region play?

I'm annoyed about the lack of that feature, but I'm not going to boycott the game because of it. I shouldn't have to.

Anyway, apparently we could argue all day about this because we have clearly different feelings on this issue.

Perhaps this issue wouldn't bother me very much, either, if most of the people with whom I wanted to play were actually on the same server as me. As it is, that isn't the case.

[quote=""KingKaramazov""][quote=""StrokeyBlofeld""][quote=""KingKaramazov""][quote=""StrokeyBlofeld""]Cross-realm play isn't impossible, I just think as pointed out it would be very costly and not too practical at the moment. I see lots of references to how "it worked just fine before", and this may be so, but you also have to consider the differences in technological tolerance. eg: 10 years ago, most people were on a dial up connection, it was quite acceptable to wait for 20 seconds or so for a web page to load, and it was expected that you would experience a substantial amount of lag spread over the course of an entire multi-player game whether it was hosted on a server or it was p2p. These days, if people have to wait for more that 2 or 3 seconds for a web page to load, they get impatient and close the page, if a game takes to long (15-30 seconds) to load people will leave and try to start another game, if there is the slightest bit of lag, people complain like mad etc etc. So, we are now far more aware of how the internet and connections are made, and what is possible, and what is capable, and so as a result we seem to be at a stage where we how no tolerance for even the slightest lag or jitter, and it is because of this that decisions such as cross continental play are either dismissed as too much of a risk or too costly to run and maintain, or just too problematic to service constantly. Also remember that the number of players using such services are massively more than 10 years ago as well.[/quote]

A couple of key points from my perspective:


a) It should be my decision whether I want to try to deal with that lag, not Blizzard's.

b) I'm not convinced there are that many more people playing SC2 now than SC1 back in its heyday, or WC3 in its heyday. Even if there are, Blizzard has vastly more resources than they had back then. I really don't buy the server load argument. It hasn't been a problem in the past numbers wise, I see no reason why it would be a problem now.


As for the technology, the fact that it is possible to buy a EU copy of the game as a NA player and play games on that server, or visa versa, makes clear that it is technologically possible.

There are many other games out there that allow people to play with people across the world, in many different kinds of games and on any console you could name. In view of that, it's very difficult for me to believe that it's not realistic for SC2 players to have similar freedom.[/quote]

You purchased the game knowing that it didn't, and may not support cross region play and then argue you should have the right to choose?
If they take the advice of those who want cross region play and games experience lag, is that really fair on those who purchased the game knowing there wan't cross region play and don't want cross region pay?
I never said that it wasn't possible to implement, I just said that making it so, servicing and maintaining it may not be in their best interest financially?
Server load is obviously going to be an issue with the number of players we are talking about, even more so when you consider the amount of money they would have to put into new servers.
If you are not convinced that the number of players now in comparison to 8 or 10 years ago, then I think we will just disagree here. I think the numbers are hugely different.
As for there being many other games out there that support cross region play, lets cut it down to the games that you don't have to "pay to play online". Once we have done that, lets look at the support such as continual patching and updating, and then lets look at how many players they constantly average on their servers.

I'm not supporting Blizzards decision here, far from it. I would love nothing more than to see cross region play implemented. It would be a huge boost for many reasons other than just for clans like us with many members across the different regions. I'm just trying to put across that it's not such a clear cut simple solution that you seem to think it is.[/quote]

Oh come on now, I'm supposed to just not buy the game because it's missing a feature like cross-region play?

I'm annoyed about the lack of that feature, but I'm not going to boycott the game because of it. I shouldn't have to.

Anyway, apparently we could argue all day about this because we have clearly different feelings on this issue.

Perhaps this issue wouldn't bother me very much, either, if most of the people with whom I wanted to play were actually on the same server as me. As it is, that isn't the case.[/quote]

I'm not saying you don't buy the game because it's missing a feature we all want, I'm saying that you know it's missing the feature when you do buy it. I guess it's a little different for me because I'm on the EU server, and so there tends to always be players on that I can get a game with when I want to play. I was never one for 1v1's, and I much prefer team games, so if I was in your position I would probably not play as much as I do.

KK, you can switch to EU, you will just be on EU forever then ;-)

This are the EU players, you will be assimilated

[quote=""Aaryn_GenD""]KK, you can switch to EU, you will just be on EU forever then ;-)[/quote]

I've considered it briefly, but I just don't like the idea of being permanently locked into a server that is on another continent. I want to be able to play with all of you guys, but I don't want to HAVE to play on a server where most other people are at least 5 hours ahead of me and thousands of miles away. If I do make friends in RL who play SC2 I'd like to be able to play with them.

Sadly, I'll just have to wait until there is some sort of solution - whether it's an official one from Blizzard that allows cross-regional play, or a sort of ICCUP server that gets created.

there won't be an iccup server or anything of that sort, so your only hope is waiting. they successfully removed that with no lan support.
and if some people still manage to do it, they'll get sued by blizzard and it has to close down.
buying the game again just to play crossrealm would be a no-go for me

[quote=""Aaryn_GenD""]there won't be an iccup server or anything of that sort, so your only hope is waiting. they successfully removed that with no lan support.
and if some people still manage to do it, they'll get sued by blizzard and it has to close down.
buying the game again just to play crossrealm would be a no-go for me[/quote]

I don't doubt that something working similarly ICCUP would not be possible, but there may be other ways to circumvent B.Net 2.0 that nobody has thought of yet (or at least tried to implement).

And yeah, I'm not going to buy another copy of the game...at least not until it goes down to like 15 or 20 dollars (which isn't happening anytime soon).

[quote=""KingKaramazov""][quote=""Aaryn_GenD""]there won't be an iccup server or anything of that sort, so your only hope is waiting. they successfully removed that with no lan support.
and if some people still manage to do it, they'll get sued by blizzard and it has to close down.
buying the game again just to play crossrealm would be a no-go for me[/quote]

I don't doubt that something working similarly ICCUP would not be possible, but there may be other ways to circumvent B.Net 2.0 that nobody has thought of yet (or at least tried to implement).

And yeah, I'm not going to buy another copy of the game...at least not until it goes down to like 15 or 20 dollars (which isn't happening anytime soon).[/quote]

Agree... im just hoping they decide to make cross-regions available sooner rather than later (if they ever decide to do it, that is).