FP 1.3 in real coding by me - anyone interested?

[jerom]

[quote=""Sporting_Lisbon""]GENERAL CHANGES
*

All Artillery except Culverins and Mortars now recieve a 0.75x multiplier against Mantlet units. Consulate Artillery, Flamethrowers, Lil' Bombards, Hand Mortars, Grenadier, Consulate Young Garde, and Abus Guns also affected.
*

It's more simple to boost the Mantlets themselves than giving other units a negative multiplier vs them
[/quote]

I think this way, as I also think murdilator wanted to make it, mantlets give iro a good age 3 option to counter artillery.

EDIT : BTW, is there any chance this patch can be uploaded in a way it doesn't rely on the patch launcher to launch it ?

[Sporting_Lisbon]

I will simplify as suggested. Also, a lot of changes will be removed as suggested as well. The Iroquois may have a problem countering lancing units though.

Lancers are countered hard by either musket riders or kanyas


Jags on FP maul grenadiers a bit too much I think. But think. In fortress, with Grens in colonial having 180 hp, 18x3= 54, meaning jags kill them in four hits. The Jag improved speed is extremely important for lategame, as is for Urumi. I will change back a few things with Mahouts and Howdahs, with the extra multipliers.

Correct, but it's also a little unfair the way grenadiers pwn maces. And they pwn them so hard that I've even used grens before vs an aztec colonial army. With the last boosts to coyos, however, this became unviable as I realized from a game with Drew. I also find that Jags vs Grens is a rare scenario, but imo Jags should be countered by the abus and not the grens themselves, it's part of the drawback of having the HI tag

I disagree on turtling a little bit. Turtling should be an option, although I may nerf it a bit on this patch. Perhaps just -25 wood cost instead of -35, and 45 train points. I will also try and fix bugs.

As it is, turtling is viable. The thing is that it also encourages spamming outposts along the map to ensure map control. This does not sound good. It would imply a decrease in their hp for sure, outposts aren't really easy to change so I suggest starting with small changes.

Maybe Brits could have increased Longbowmen cost, like 65 food, 40 wood, or 65 food, 45 wood, and/or perhaps 0.6x against cavalry?

Longbows aren't great in 1v1 but are somewhat too good in team games because they're only effective when spammed. A speed upgrade to 4.5 and an hp reduction to 85 could work, requires testing. Their price is not the problem, tho.

Maybe French Cuirs could have 1 area, but Thoroughbreds give +1 Area?

French cuirs are fine the way they are right now, imo. I still remember spamming 1150 hp 63 attack insta cuirs in FFA's haha

[murdilator]

I could make grens get 0.75x bonus vs. Macehualtins as well. I just need changes pointed out, and I can do them.


Any other suggestions will be great.



Would a 1300 Infinite wood card sound ok for Iroquois (replacingthe Infinite 500 food, 500 wood, 500 coin card)?


I am also reducing Portuguese Church Black Riders to 2000 Coin, and 13 Black Riders (instead of 2400 coin).

Flail Elephants might need their siege attack down to 80, with 1.5 ROF, instead of 110 with 2.0 ROF. This needs more testing, but Flails look pretty good for their usage right now.

Maybe on the weekend I will upload the new version.

[Sporting_Lisbon]

(continuation)



Big Button Warhut Lacrosse Tech reduced to 400 wood, 400 coin, and now gives Tomahawks +0.5x ranged bonus against cavalry and +0.4x ranged bonus vs light infantry.
*
Sounds good

Big Button Siege Drill Tech reduced to 400 food, 400 wood.
*

Small impact

Big Button Dock Rawhide Covers Tech reduced to 400 food, 400 wood.
*
Same

Big Button Dock Secret Society Tech reduced to 150 wood, 75 coin, and is now available in Discovery Age.
*

I'm unaware of this big button, what exactly is this?

Iroquois Old Ways Shipment reworked to new stats. Bug with Iroquois Scouting party also fixed.
*
Ok

Travois trainpoints reduced from 30 to 20. With 25 Dancers, Travois will train in less than 10.0 seconds.
*

I fear a hut spam, needs testing

Firepit Medicine Men hitpoints reduced to 250, train points to 15, cost to 150 coin.
*

Seems ok

7 Mantlet Infinite Card: now ships in 32 seconds (down from 40).
*
Doesn't make sense to make it ship at a faster rate from the other cards.

Warhut ranged attack increased to 33 (up from 30).

Same as said before on the azzies, seems ok but we need to be careful with hut spams, especially from iro

SIOUX
*

Villager cost reduced to 90 food, train points to 22.5 seconds. XP Bounty reduced to 9 XP.
*

Weird change, I do not advise making sioux vills train faster than the rest.

Adoption Card: now gives villagers -20% train points (down from -25%).
*

The card was useless the way it was before, no need to nerf it further

Dog Soldier Train Points reduced to 40 (down from 55). With 25 dancers, they will train in about 14 seconds.
*

Sounds good

Tashuke Prowler cost reduced to 140 food, 70 coin, armor increased to 0.20. Bounty reduced to 21.
*
To be honest I don't remember the old tashunke price, the difference mustn't be too much so it looks viable

Colonial Warrior Politician now delivers 2 Axe Riders (instead of 1).
*

Doable

Industrial Warrior Politician now delivers 4 Dog Soldiers (instead of 5 Axe Riders).
*
Doable
Imperial Warrior Politician now delivers 7 Dog Soldiers (instead of 10 Axe Riders).
*
Doable
Tashunke Prowler build limit increased to 15 (down from 12).
*
Careful with this.
Marauders Card: now gives Tashunkes +4.0 LOS, +0.50x bonus against villagers, and enables Champion and Legendary Techs.
*

This might bring madness, needs testing

Champion Tashunke Prowler: turned into a 'shadow' tech. This means that it will auto-upgrade upon hitting Industrial, once Marauders Card has been sent.
*

Legendary Tashunke Prowler: turned into a 'shadow' tech. This means that it will auto-upgrade upon hitting Imperial, once Marauders Card has been sent.
*

Bow Rider multiplier against heavy cavalry and Coyote Men increased to x2.5/x2.0 (up from x2.25/x1..
*

Bow riders are already great in colonial, no need to make them a broken unit (imagine a huge cetan army with few bow riders covering them doing the job

Firepit Medicine Men hitpoints reduced to 250, train points to 15, cost to 150 coin.
*

same as iro
Bandit Gang Infinite Card: Now upgrades Saloon Wild West.
*
Doable

Warhut ranged attack increased to 33 (up from 30).

Sioux's turtling abilities are crap so this is welcomed.
BRITISH
*

Thin Red Line Tech now gives infantry only -15% speed (down from -25%).
*
Seems reasonable

Rogers Rangers Tech: now upgrades Royal Guard Skirmishers, gives Skirmisher +2.0 Range and LOS, but ships only 24 skirmishers (down from 26) and Costs just 1800 coin.
*
Doable

Improved Grenades Tech: now gives +67% siege damage instead of +87%.

Doable

Brits could use some other changes, they're a bit too good and too versatile but too be honest I've no idea where nor how to touch them.

DUTCH
*

Stadhouters Tech: now upgrades Royal Guard musketeers, but delivers only 28 Stadhouter Musketeers.

I do not like dutch's colonial age at all. Too slow and it seems that dutch live to age up to fortress for their beloved ruyters. I suck with dutch so suggestions are accepted.

FRENCH
*

Church Code Napoleon: Effect changed to give -35% wood cost for buildings.
*

Church Young Garde: Cost reduced to 450 food.(down from 500)
*

Church Middle Garde: Cost reduced to 900 food (down from 1000).
*

Church Old Garde: Cost reduced to 1800 food (down from 2000), plus gives Grenadiers +2.0 Range and LOS, and gives Grenadiers +20% Hitpoints and damage (up from +10% Hitpoints and damage).

Sounds ok. French are fine I guess

GERMANS
*

Solingen Steel Card: effect reduced to -25% Dopplesoldner Speed (up from -33%), and also gives Dopplesolders +50% armor (from 0.20 to 0.30).

Steel a worthless card

*

Polish Winged Hussar Card: made an infinite shipment, but delivers only 8 Hussars.

Infinite shipments are only worth it in imperial, and guard hus are worthless in imperial

Germans are fine too

INDIA
*

Sowar hitpoints increased to 235, speed reduced to 7.0, hand attack increased to 22, (trample 14). Multiplier against infantry to 1.25x, 0.8x against Heavy Infantry. Mansabder reworked to new stats.

Not good. Makes them less special and different from other cav.

*

Camel Damage Card: effect reduced to 20%.

Makes sense when comparing with other civ's cards
*

Desert Terror Card gives Sowars +0.25x bonus against infantry, and -0.13x multiplier against Heavy Infantry. This increased the 1.25x/0.8x to a 1.5x/0.67x.
*
No need to nerf this imo

Rajput hitpoints increased to 180, cost reduced to 80 food, 35 wood. Bounty decreased to 12. Mansabder reworked to new stats, plus Mansabder speed reduced to 5.0.
*

Needs testing, I fear that they're gonna eat xbows

Howdah attack increased to 67, hand to 34, multiplier against Heavy cavalry increased to 3.0x, multiplier against artillery reduced to 2.0x. Mansadber reworked to new stats.
*
Not sure

Flail Elephant hitpoints increased to 375, cost increased to 140 food, 140 coin hand attack increased to 11, speed increased to 4.8, and siege attack increased to 110, with 2.0 ROF. Bounty increased to 28. Mansadber reworked to new stats.
*

Might finally make flails show up in the map

Fortress Agra hitpoints increased to 7500, damage to 75, caption to 150, and anti-ship attack to 120.
*

Agra fort semi-FF might get scary, or do you mean when you build it to age from colonial to fortress?

Industrial Agra hitpoints increased to 12000, damage to 125, caption to 250, range increased to 28, LOS to 34, and anti-ship attack to 250.
*

Imperial Agra hitpoints increased to 15000, damage to 150, caption to 300, range to 30, LOS to 36, and anti-ship attack to 300.
*

15k hp is way too much haha

Delhi Gate upgrade now also gives Agra Forts +2.0 Range and LOS.
*

Red Fort upgrade now also gives Agra Forts +2.0 Range and LOS. All Agra Forts now receive +50% damage as well (instead of only Colonial Agra).
*
Sounds ok
Gurkha Aid Card now gives Gurkha +0.5x bonus against Ranged Cavalry to match with Counter Infantry Rifling. Gurkha Aid also upgrades Counter Infantry Rifling Tech.
*
Sounds ok
Mahout cost reduced to 385 food, 235 wood, and penalty against Heavy Infantry reduced to 0.6x. Bounty reduced to 62. Mansabder reworked to new stats.
*
Needs testing. I foresee pikes getting eaten by mahouts

Honored Mahout Tech gives Mahouts +0.15x bonus to Heavy Infantry. Mansabder also affected.
*
But HI are supposed to counter mahouts
3 Mahouts Card: cost reduced to 850 food (down from 1000).
*
Not needed, the card is good as is

Colonial Charminar Gate now delivers 2 Sowars + 1 Stable Wagon.
*
Sounds innovating

Siege Elephant cost reduced to 275 wood, 375 coin, and armor increased to 0.40. Bounty reduced to 65. Mansabder reworked to new stats.
*
Increasing the armor brings up the nice discussion of "what exactly beats the siege elephant since it doesn't count as artillery?"

Urumi Swordsman speed increased to 4.80, armor to 0.35. Urumi get 0.75x multiplier against Arrow Knights.
*
Urumis are way OP the way they are right now, no need for further boosts

9 Infinite Urumi Card: Arrives in 27 seconds.
*
This card doesn't need boost

Sacred Field build limit increased to 3, Sacred Cow limit increased to 30 (up from 2 Sacred Fields and 20 Sacred Cows).
*
No no no, I foresee loads of urumis and even greater abuse in mongolia

Ritual Bovines Tech effect increased to +35% Sacred Field gathering (up from +25%).
*

Brings more imbalance imo (team games, indian in mongolia, nightmares)

TEAM Improved Buildings Card: effect increased to +30% (up from +25%).
*

ok

TEAM Shivajis' Tactics Card: effect changed to TEAM +5% Infantry Speed and +10% Cavalry and Light Infantry HP.

+5% speed has a huge influence compared to 10% hp


will continue later

[Sporting_Lisbon]

[quote=""murdilator""]I could make grens get 0.75x bonus vs. Macehualtins as well. I just need changes pointed out, and I can do them.

Well it's just that grens have splash damage so it just makes sense that they're good vs maces.


Any other suggestions will be great.



Would a 1300 Infinite wood card sound ok for Iroquois (replacingthe Infinite 500 food, 500 wood, 500 coin card)?

I personally believe that infinite cards weren't one of ES' brightest ideas, because they're used in imperial age while being available already in industrial age. What is 1300w worth in imperial age? However, a 2000w card would be too strong in industrial. Let's leave these infinite cards alone and try to focus on other more practical aspects

I am also reducing Portuguese Church Black Riders to 2000 Coin, and 13 Black Riders (instead of 2400 coin).

Sounds good

Flail Elephants might need their siege attack down to 80, with 1.5 ROF, instead of 110 with 2.0 ROF. This needs more testing, but Flails look pretty good for their usage right now.

1.5 ROF? That would be fun to see!

Maybe on the weekend I will upload the new version.[/quote]

[Bart331]

what are you trying to balance with these changes?

do you even play fp?

do you have any clue about what is currently the best strats / the strongest civs?

why are you doing this?

For example, dutch is heavily **** at fp1.2 and u give them 28 royal guard musks. WHY? dutch is already dead by that time

2nd example, india is widely accepted as bottom civ and u give them zero boosts only stupid cav nerfs WHY?

[jerom]

I'm not sure about the cav nerfs, might be boosts, but I don't know the stats as they are right now.

[Sporting_Lisbon]

CHINA
*

Hand Mortar cost increased to 65 food, 95 wood, range decreased to 32, LOS reduced to 36, armor increased to 0.60. Multiplier against artillery reduced to 5x (down from 6x), multiplier against buildings reduced to 14x (down from 16x), and multiplier against ships reduced to 10x (down from 14x).
*

Hand mortars have a big range because they are the chinese culverin, they do not need nerfs especially when china lacks a falconet-type unit

Flamethrower penalty against light infantry reduced to 0.64x in order to line up with the 0.8x light Infanty/1.0x Cavalry penalty setup (up from 0.6x).
*

Ok

Flying Crow population count reduced to 6 (down from 7).
*

Ok

Great Wall Card: effect reduced to only give +250% Train Points (down from +500%).
*
Still a secondary card
Manchu Combat: Now also gives Manchu Horse Archers +15% hitpoints and damage.
*
Doesn't make a lot of sense for a card to improve specific mercenaries that the civ isn't able to spam, i.e. this would mean that china would have an advantage depending on manchus being available in the saloon

Repelling Volley Card: now also upgrades Counter Infantry Rifling Tech, and gives Iron Troops and Repentant Iron Troops +0.50x multiplier against ranged cavalry, +0.50x multiplier against xpEagleKnight, +0.50x multiplier against Heavy Infantry, and +10% damage. However, Cho Ko Nus and Arquebusiers receive only +0.75x bonus against Ranged Cavalry and Eagle Knights (down from +1.0x bonus).

No need to make ckn different from the rest imo
*

Mongolian Scourge: now also gives Manchu Horse Archers +0.25x multiplier against Heavy Cavalry and +0.20x multiplier against Coyote Man.

Same as manchu combat
JAPANESE
*

Yabusame hitpoints increased to 220, cost changed from 60 food, 150 coin to 115 food, 85 coin, ranged attack increased to 11, hand to 7, multiplier against Artillery reduced to 5.0x, speed increased from 6.8 to 7.25, Range reduced to 16, LOS to 20. Bounty reduced to 20.
*

Imo it's part of the unit to be coin expensive, the hp change is ok but keep the bonus vs artillery. They still lack that extra range that makes it a good falconet counter so the bonus vs artillery should stay

Yabusame Attack Card: effect changed to +25%, and now gives Yabusames +0.25x bonus against Heavy Cavalry and +0.20x against Coyote Man.
*
Sounds ok
Yabusame Anti-Artillery Card: now gives Yabusames +0.25 bonus against Heavy Cavalry and +0.20x against Coyote Man.
*
Doesn't make sense that an "anti-artillery" card improves yabusames vs cav

Hatamoto Samurai hitpoints reduced to 450, attack reduced to 49, caption to 98, siege to 100 (this is the equivalent of giving Hatamotos 'Colonial Stats').
*
Hatamotos are expensive and hard to use, no need for nerf
Sword Saint Card: effect penalty reduced to +5% Samurai food and coin cost (down from +10%).
*
Careful with these, especially if there are other boosts for sams
Red Seal Ship Card: effect reduced from 1.0/0.83 gold to export exchange to just 1.0/0.70 gold to export exchange.
*
The card is terrible, doesn't need nerf

TEAM Chonido Card: effect reduced to +5% Villager gathering, in order to match with Economic Theory change.

I do not agree with the nerfs

RUSSIANS
*

Kulmucks Tech now upgrades Royal Guard Dragoons.
*

Baskir Ponies Tech now upgrades Royal Guard Hussars.
*

The units are good enough imo, and boosting the kalmucks further would make them present in nearly every game

Sevaspool Card now gives Blockhouses and Town Centers -60% Train Points, but gives Forts and Walls -40% train points.

Not sure about this one

OTTOMANS
*

Janissary cost reduced from 100 food, 25 coin, to 95 food, 25 coin, and armor increased to 0.30. Bounty reduced to 12. Consulate Janissaries also affected.
*
Janissaries are good enough the way they are right now.

Olgan Acemi School Card: effect changed to -15% Janissary cost and Train Points.
*
Ok

Abus Gun cost changed from 50 food, 100 coin to 65 food, 85 coin.
*
I don't like it
Veteran Abus Gun autoupgrades upon hitting fortress.
*
As some have said in agesanc, this would make the 5 abus gun politician too strong. It also makes abus look more like dutch skirms and indian ghurkas

TEAM Outpost Wagons: effect changed to deliver 1 Outpost wagon, plus +1.0 Outpost build limit.
*
Secondary card
Spahi armor increased to 0.20.
*
Can't happen, spahis are good enough as is. I realize that through the whole patching process spahis were left out as the only cav with 0.1 rr but they do not need the 0.20

TEAM 4 Spahi Card: changed to 4 Infinite Spahi Card, cost reduced to 800 food, and ships in 40 seconds.
*
Too cheap imo

All Mosque Settler techs, except Galatia Town District, -33% approximate cost.
*
This just can't happen, it's a huge boost to ottos
Tufanci Corp Tech: now also gives Janissaries +15% Damage, but delivers only 13 Janissaries.
*
Jans might be getting overupgraded

Great Bombards now have 1.25x multiplier against infantry. Penalty against artillery reduced to 0.5x (up from 0.4x), multiplier against cavalry and light infantry reduced to 0.6x (up from 0.5x). Affects consulate Great Bombards.
*
Bombards are fine the way they are
Topcu Corps Tech: now also gives Great Bombards +10% hitpoints and damage.

I think that you're making the adv church cards have a much bigger impact than what they're meant to have in the game

15 Corsair Infinite Card: effect reduced to deliver only 12 Corsairs.
*
The card is bad enough

Grand Visier Politician gives 4 Spahi (up from 3).

Surely cannot happen either, would be a huge boost to the otto FI/FR

PORTUGUESE
*

Besteirios Tech: Cost reduced to 1300 wood, delivers 13 Crossbowmen, increases crossbowmen Range and LOS by +2.00, and upgrades Royal Guard Crossbowmen.
*
Way too cheap

Order of the Tower and Sword Tech: Cost changed to 2400 coin (instead of 2000 wood), and now delivers 13 Black Riders.
*
I'd rather keep it wood cost but make it cheaper

15 Corsair Infinite Card: effect reduced to deliver only 12 Corsairs.
*
same as otto

Organ gun hitpoints increased to 175, caption to 66 (up from 60).
*
Possible

Rangefinding Card: effect reduced to +8.0 Mortar Range and LOS (down from +10.0 Range and LOS).
*
The card wasn't that good to deserve the nerf

TEAM Early Dragoons Card: now also affects Mansabder Zamburacks and Bow Riders.

It doesn't affect cav archers so it shouldn't affect bow riders

SPANISH
*

Rodelero armor increased to 0.50. Consulate Rodeleros also affected.
*

Makes them an even more broken unit

*** Tech: now upgrades Imperial Halbardiers.
*
Insanity, would make this way too good
Corslet Tech: effect changed to just -10% Heavy Infantry Speed.
*
Together with the *** you get an OP adv church FF

Wild Geese Tech: cost increased to 2400 food, and now delivers 13 Hackapells (up from 2000 food and 11 Hackapells).
*
I think I prefer the old one, more versatile

Tercio Tech: now gives Pikemen +0.5x bonus against cavalry and +0.4x against Light Infantry.
*
Unnecessary
Imperial Tercio Tech: now gives Pikemen +0.75x bonus against cavalry and +0.6x bonus against Light Infantry.

Same

REVOLUTION
*

Gatling gun hitpoints increased to 185, cost increased to 100 wood, 350 coin, bombard attack to 33, caption to 66, multiplier of 1.35x against infantry added, range increased to 28 (up from 26), LOS increased to 30 (up from 26), penalty against Cavalry and Light Infantry increased to 0.6x (up from 0.5x).
*

Sounds fun
Washington Revolution Politician: now gives Gatling +15% HP and damage, plus delivers 4 Gatling Guns (instead of +25% Gatling HP).
*
Ok
Bonifacio Revolution Politician: now gives Units +10% HP, plus delivers 12 Colonial Militia (instead of just +5% Unit HP).
*
Ok
Louverture Revolution Politician: now gives Colonial Militia +20% HP and damage, plus delivers 16 Colonial Militia (instead of just +10% Colonial Militia HP).
20% combat is too much, 15% or even 10% is fine

OUTLAWS
*

Thuggee and Repentant Thuggee speed increased to 4.5 (up from 4.0).

Ok
MERCENARIES
*

Barbary Corsair hitpoints increased to 325, armor to 0.50, multiplier against cavalry to 3.5x, multiplier against light infantry to 2.8x, siege attack to 28. Repentant Barbary Corsairs are also affected.
Ok
*

Fusilier hitpoints increased to 320, cost decreased to 285, armor increased to 0.20. Bounty reduced to 29. Repentant Fusiliers are also affected.

Fusis are fine
*

Highlander cost increased to 240, train points to 44. Bounty increased to 24. Repentant Highlanders are also affected.

*
I wouldn't touch highlanders either

Hackapell hitpoints increased to 325. Repentant Hackapells are also affected.

*
They're fine as well
Stradiot hitpoints increased to 635, cost reduced to 285 coin. Bounty reduced to 29. Repentant Stradiots are also affected.

*
Same
Black Rider hitpoints increased to 540, cost reduced to 250. Bounty reduced to 25. Repentant Black Riders are also affected.

*
Same
Jaeger hitpoints increased to 270, speed increased to 4.2, range increased to 22, LOS to 26. Repentant Jaegers are also affected.

*
Same, I'd just keep the speed to make them like the other skirms

Swiss Pikeman cost increased to 170. Bounty increased to 17. Repentant Swiss Pikemen are also affected.

*
Same
Mameluke hitpoints reduced to 1350. Repentant Mamelukes are also affected.

*
Same
Manchu cost increased to 240. Bounty increased to 24. Repentant Manchus are also affected.

Same
*

Iron Troop hitpoints increased to 285, armor reduced to 0.50, cost increased to 220 coin. Bounty increased to 22. Repentant Iron Troops are also affected.

*
Iron troops could just use an extra +2 range instead of this and they'd be fine

Jat Lancer hitpoints increased to 650, cost reduced to 370 coin, train points reduced to 50. Bounty reduced to 37. Repentant Jat Lancers are also affected.

*
The hp boost is enough

Yojimbo hitpoints increased to 650, cost reduced to 370 coin, multiplier against cavalry increased to 3.0x (up from 2.0x), multiplier against light infantry increased to 2.4x (up from 1.6x). Bounty reduced to 37. Repentant Yojimbos are also affected.

* Needs testing. Remember that in melee they have splash damage

Ninja population count decreased to 3, LOS to 22. Consulate Ninjas and Repentant Ninjas ared also affected.

Ok
BUGS
*

Fixed bug with Conuslate Tufanci Corps only having 210 HP, with 2.25x bonus to cavalry and 1.8x bonus to Light Infantry. Upped to new Janissary stats.

*

Fixed bug with Homecity Tiger Claws when Reinforced Gauntlets tech is researched. In early versions of the game, they are not affected by the +50% HP.

*

Fixed bug with Shaolin Fist Tech, where Ranged units would only get increased hand attack in Volley and Stagger modes. It now affects regular Melee mode as well.

That is not a bug, it's what the tech is meant to do (if I remember correctly)
*

Fixed bugs with Iroquois Old Ways shipment.

*

Cree Coureurs now cost 125 food, have 0.30 armor, and bounty increased to 13 in order to match with regular Coureurs.

*

Arsonists and Repentant Aronsists now have 'Mercenery' tag.

*

Asian Consulate Bank hitpoints reduced to 3500 to fit in line with regular Bank.


MISCELLANEOUS
*

SPC Indian Consulate: effect changed to give just +33% Building hitpoints. SPC Indian Sequester now gives -33% Building hitpoints.

I didn't understand this one

[Sporting_Lisbon]

In general, if we want to modify the game, we need to establish priorities. We can work on balance and on making useless stuff finally part of the game. In my opinion we should try to keep the number of changes as short as possible and try not to change what already works well.

[Bart331]

More like:

Brits manor > 160 wood
Dutch + 100 starting wood
Spain a slight nerf
Port -100 starting food
India some buff, they need to be quicker
Iro give them their wood back

General changes, hi should do less damage to HI,
musk x0,75 vs HI, doppels/rods x 0,75 vs HI

just some things noticed while playing lately (maybe musk deserve a nerf vs RI as well)

[Sporting_Lisbon]

Bart, Spain is crap! Wanna play Jap vs Spain? If you beat my japs once in 10 games then ok

But yeah we need those kind of changes in terms of balance, Murdilator was focusing on getting useless stuff back in the game.

Brit manors at 160w but building faster than they do atm could be nice.

Dutch +100w should be ok too. How is dutch fortress age atm? I just hate dutch lol

What if India started with +100c?

Iro needs that wood back, yeah.

I think that musks should just have either a shorter range or just a 20 attack instead of 23 while cav should have their rr reduced by 0.1. Doppels/rods vs HI isn't much of a problem because all HI have melee resistance. What do you think?

Ports are fine and, together with french, represent the objective of balance.

ALSO, TURN ON XFIRE BECAUSE TODAY I LOGGED ON ESO AND I NOTICED YOU WERE INGAME!

[jerom]

Dutch age 3 is decent I guess, it's pretty much age 3 = 60% chance to win, but if you don't reach it your pretty much about dead.

[murdilator]

I've been working on the files and doing most of the suggestions, including Iroquois (plus an extra economic card added for plantations and mills), and I am still working on Balancing the Church techs. I am removing a few things. Also Spanish Hackapell tech will be 2000 food, but 13 Hackapells, and Portuguese church tech will be 13 Black Riders, and 2000 coin. Besteirios may be 1500 wood or 1600 wood from suggestions I get here. Still, it is very lucrative and useful now the way I have made it.

I was thinking the same thing about HI Bart, getting maybe 0.8x against infantry, but 1.25x against HI. This could go away maybe with Guard, Champion and Honored techs. However, this is a boatload of coding. At least Sporting_Lisbon was correct about Rajputs; they do maul xbows in Age 2. But, then again, that was without hit and run.

The Indian army is getting more balanced (Howdahs, Mahouts, Siege Elephants). Also, I have made all Mansabders 1.5 of their standard unit population (rounds up for 1 population units), and Mansadbers can now train their own unit type. The only exception is the Mansabder Urumi (Urumi is a trainable unit, but you have to enable it in order for it to work). I think that many of you will see that when I playtest, as I did in War of the Five Indias GOLD by myself, I often overboost or slightly overnerf things, in order to see how far we can go.

For instance, for British, Longbowmen will receive a more balanced unit, like the Vanilla version (90 HP, 4.2 speed, 15 dmg, 10 hand, 1.6x against HI). Also, I was thinking of the same suggestions of mercenaries that Lisbon mentioned after a while.

However, I disagree about Bombards as they have little impact against most units, and especially cavalry. Super units are supposed to be a little OP so that people will build them. Making Church techs give Royal Guards makes it a bit more cool . Maybe they enable their unit that they ship, and they could be trainable in Industrial or Imperial or something like that.

When it comes to crates, I would personally have Portugal start with No free Hunting dogs, but +1 food, +1 wood, and +1 coin crate, but this is low priority since Portugal is already good. India suggestions sound intriguing. I will have to look into how to add and remove starting crates.

Would moving Cassadors to a 22 dmg, 4.0 ROF sound good? It may get some of their uniqueness back, but really needs testing. Even 21 dmg may do. However, it is very low priority.

What about 4.25 speed Halbardiers? They get picked off slowly

The Dutch, with boosted grenadiers, and soon changed outposts (240 wood, 48 train points) should have a good start in colonial. As it is, maybe Ruyters could get back their 30 food, 75 coin cost. Also, with boosted skirmishers, they look quite fine so far, though I have not quite tested them.

The Sioux are seeing this boost: the Warchief can now build Teepees, but builds them 50% slower than other units. This needs testing though.

I have also fixed a couple bugs and more strings. Maybe I may load it up sometime next week, but I have no promises. That will be a new test version.

I think I may have "added" Veteran and Guard techs for Revolution Colonial militia - needs some testing. This is just an update on how things are going. I also will remove some dumb infinite shipment changes I said I made, since I do not know how to do them.

This is mainly for fun , and not crazily serious. The more spice we get back into this game, the more fun FP will be. That's the only problem I have had with FP - that it has balanced the game, but took some spice out of it, or didn't add much, such as the church techs. Historically, the French Old Garde were insane, so I may want them trainable afterwards as a Royal Guard unit or something, but that could easily be OP.

Just an update .

[Sporting_Lisbon]

[quote=""murdilator""]I've been working on the files and doing most of the suggestions, including Iroquois (plus an extra economic card added for plantations and mills), and I am still working on Balancing the Church techs. I am removing a few things. Also Spanish Hackapell tech will be 2000 food, but 13 Hackapells, and Portuguese church tech will be 13 Black Riders, and 2000 coin. Besteirios may be 1500 wood or 1600 wood from suggestions I get here. Still, it is very lucrative and useful now the way I have made it.

In the context of a spanish church FF, if and when the spanish gets to IV, having 13 hakkas for 2000f seems excessive. Boosting some of the useless adv church cards is ok in a context of making them part of the game but we gotta be careful with the ones that are already doable. However, dutch do get their load of guard musks for a cheap price in IV so I guess this could pass as well

I was thinking the same thing about HI Bart, getting maybe 0.8x against infantry, but 1.25x against HI. This could go away maybe with Guard, Champion and Honored techs. However, this is a boatload of coding.

I disagree with this. In my opinion the problem with musk units is that their ranged attack is just way too high overall. Musks should have 20 atk and hussars should have 0.10 rr which would make a lot more sense. No one says that tomas are, imo, an example of what a balanced musk unit should be.

At least Sporting_Lisbon was correct about Rajputs; they do maul xbows in Age 2. But, then again, that was without hit and run.

Even with hit n run, rajputs would be going to chase them down so they need to be balanced carefully. Imo we should make them "tanks" with high hp and low attack. 180 hp 13 attack x3 vs cav, 5 speed 80f 35w. You might not like the 13 attack but if you compare the stats with pikes you notice that this is a good deal.

The Indian army is getting more balanced (Howdahs, Mahouts, Siege Elephants). Also, I have made all Mansabders 1.5 of their standard unit population (rounds up for 1 population units), and Mansadbers can now train their own unit type. The only exception is the Mansabder Urumi (Urumi is a trainable unit, but you have to enable it in order for it to work). I think that many of you will see that when I playtest, as I did in War of the Five Indias GOLD by myself, I often overboost or slightly overnerf things, in order to see how far we can go.

Pop math gets complicated, just make the mansabdars cheaper and/or train a bit faster

For instance, for British, Longbowmen will receive a more balanced unit, like the Vanilla version (90 HP, 4.2 speed, 15 dmg, 10 hand, 1.6x against HI). Also, I was thinking of the same suggestions of mercenaries that Lisbon mentioned after a while.

This is possible

However, I disagree about Bombards as they have little impact against most units, and especially cavalry. Super units are supposed to be a little OP so that people will build them.

Great bombards are used often and are better than heavy cannons because even though they fire slower, they deal more damage vs artillery and have a huge splash damage of 5(!)

Making Church techs give Royal Guards makes it a bit more cool . Maybe they enable their unit that they ship, and they could be trainable in Industrial or Imperial or something like that.

Well it's a +10% difference and they're guard units that you get in fortress age some of them, i.e. kalmucks. Making them trainable would make all late games look the same imo

When it comes to crates, I would personally have Portugal start with No free Hunting dogs, but +1 food, +1 wood, and +1 coin crate, but this is low priority since Portugal is already good.
Yep, port is fine and some even say they're too good

India suggestions sound intriguing. I will have to look into how to add and remove starting crates.

Would moving Cassadors to a 22 dmg, 4.0 ROF sound good? It may get some of their uniqueness back, but really needs testing. Even 21 dmg may do. However, it is very low priority.

Caças are fine and I don't like their old uniqueness tbh. An extra 0.2 speed like the other skirms and their speed and siege/melee weakness make them unique

What about 4.25 speed Halbardiers? They get picked off slowly

Sounds good

The Dutch, with boosted grenadiers, and soon changed outposts (240 wood, 48 train points) should have a good start in colonial.

This isn't going to give dutch a good start by itself. Dutch have to start with rax/stable and outposts are only built later on. Grens are more like late colonial. 100w could do

As it is, maybe Ruyters could get back their 30 food, 75 coin cost. Also, with boosted skirmishers, they look quite fine so far, though I have not quite tested them.

NO! God, I truly hate ruyter spams and atm they're definitely fine.

The Sioux are seeing this boost: the Warchief can now build Teepees, but builds them 50% slower than other units. This needs testing though.

Lol let him build at 100%. Teepees will still be hard to use

I have also fixed a couple bugs and more strings. Maybe I may load it up sometime next week, but I have no promises. That will be a new test version.

I think I may have "added" Veteran and Guard techs for Revolution Colonial militia - needs some testing. This is just an update on how things are going. I also will remove some dumb infinite shipment changes I said I made, since I do not know how to do them.

Overboosted

This is mainly for fun , and not crazily serious. The more spice we get back into this game, the more fun FP will be. That's the only problem I have had with FP - that it has balanced the game, but took some spice out of it, or didn't add much, such as the church techs. Historically, the French Old Garde were insane, so I may want them trainable afterwards as a Royal Guard unit or something, but that could easily be OP.

I agree, and I'd like to do such a patch as much as you do. The trick is to have a small number of changes that have a bigger impact. The thing with the adv churches is that some are useful while others are, well, useless which doesn't allow us to boost them all in general. (russian, dutch are good, spanish, german and british are ok, port is hard to use, otto is good but not worth the card, french is terrible)

About the Old Gardes, I'd make them a bit cheaper so that you could get them rollin' as soon as you hit industrial.

Just an update .[/quote]

[jerom]

Did anyone of you see the "What is the best civ in the fp" thread on agesanc ?

It might help us out a lot