N3O Age Of Empires and Starcraft 2 Clan

Well if there is 1 thing that I am doing consistently in SC2 it is making sentries pretty much 99% of the time. Naturally that sounds like a good thing, which is why I do it. What allows me 2 have this kind of gamestyle, however, is 100% due to AoE! Drew has mentioned it in his VODs more than once. The ability 2 continuously make vills is essential.

But when is it enough? When do I stop making sentries? The last game I played I ended up making 128 sentries whilst the closest 1 2 me made a mere 39. My normal worker built no is consistently double that of all others playing, be it allies or foes.

When I expand, early or not, I will do so aggressively. Another thing Ive learnt from AoE was to build new bases as soon as enemy territory is available. and the most natural site 2 expand is on that Vespine Gas and mineral fields.

Building 100 workers costs minerals, and somehow I find that once u get that magic No of workers then ur eco should be plenty as it is. So what is the magic No pls?

out

U mean probes, i guess?
The problem is that u have no vill cap. Optimal "villagers" are 3 per mineral patch or vespine geysir. So a base is called saturated when it is like that at the base.
If u have already more probes at one base it is time to transfer the surplus probes to another base and/or expand (if possible)

[quote=""Comadevil""]U mean probes, i guess?
The problem is that u have no vill cap. Optimal "villagers" are 3 per mineral patch or vespine geysir. So a base is called saturated when it is like that at the base.
If u have already more probes at one base it is time to transfer the surplus probes to another base and/or expand (if possible)[/quote]

This is my biggest downfall. Although every game I will always make more SCV than any other player in the game, normaly by quite a lot, I' don't always have most resources, this is due to my distribution. Although, I do find that it is harder to get the perfect distribution in random 4v4 due to players taking expansions and being greedy where they shouldn't, leaving you to go out and expand in more vulnerable places. I tend to have around 90+ workers based on a 30+ min game.

Basically you should only make roughly 28 workers per base (dont remember the exact number) because gas takes 3 vills and close mineral patches 2 and far mineral patches 3 workers for optimal gathering. BUT you should continuously train vills because when you expand you can immediatly saturate your new expo by transfering half you your villls there.

You shouldnt be having more than 90 or even 80 workers because its nearly impossible to get bases not over saturated with like 110 workers (u'd need like 5 mining basses) . Also you get all the money u need with like 80 workers and 4 bases

the usual is 8 mineral patches and 2 geysers , 3 workers per patch/geyser =30 worker/base

[quote=""deadhanddan""]the usual is 8 mineral patches and 2 geysers , 3 workers per patch/geyser =30 worker/base[/quote]

i personally don't plan on doing the fully saturation thing every time, it is not worth it sometimes. the bonus you gain from 24 on 8 mineral patches to just 20 is minimal...
the reason why people do more than that is once they expand, they wanna transfer. if you do this transfer let it be no less than 10 workers.
overall, having more than 80 workers no matter what is a waste.
not every base needs to be 30 worker saturated.

gathering rates are as follow:

normal mineral patches:
8 workers ~ 480 min per minute
16 workers ~ 940 min per minute
20 workers ~ 1030 min per minute
24 workers ~ 1140 min per minute
28 workers ~ 1130 min per minute (Less than 24 )

Now for the high-yield minerals:
8 workers ~ 686 min per minute
16 workers ~ 1134 min per minute
20 workers ~ 1176 min per minute
24 workers ~ 1204 min per minute
28 workers ~ 1260 min per minute
32 workers ~ 1218 min per minute (Less than 28 )

Now for vespene gas:
3 workers ~ 164 gas per minute
6 workers ~ 328 gas per minute

you see that once you reach a certain point, the gain on your investment becomes marginal. i only want fully saturated bases (30 per base if i have two bases) when i know i won't be able to expand early and when i know i will get raided from time to time or when i am about to expand.

its always a good habit to make more workers so when your expo goes up you can instant saturate it and get maximal return on investment. Playing with the thought of not expanding is tricky cause you HAVE to be succesfull with your 1 base all in push else you will fall behind vs any player who succesfully expanded.

[quote=""Aaryn_GenD""]

Now for vespene gas:
3 workers ~ 164 gas per minute
3 workers ~ 328 gas per minute

[/quote]

??????? :?: :?: :?:

[quote=""Aaryn_GenD""]

Now for the high-yield minerals:
8 workers ~ 686 min per minute
16 workers ~ 1134 min per minute
20 workers ~ 1176 min per minute
24 workers ~ 1204 min per minute
28 workers ~ 1260 min per minute
32 workers ~ 1218 min per minute (Less than 28 )

[/quote]

Is this right??? The jump from 20 to 24 workers only gains you 28 m/pm, but the jump from 24 to 28 gains you 56 m/pm? This is also more than the jump from 16 to 20 which is only 42 m/pm? This doesn't look right to me, I thought it would be a gradual decrease in minerals gathered per gatherer added, but your numbers don't make sense.

they do make sense , official source ;-)
let me explain why: 28 to 32, you got 4 more scv's but they bump into each other more, and since the gain is so small you actually gather less than with 28.
and i fixed the worker amiunt of 6 for the vespene

[quote=""Aaryn_GenD""]they do make sense , official source ;-)
let me explain why: 28 to 32, you got 4 more scv's but they bump into each other more, and since the gain is so small you actually gather less than with 28.
and i fixed the worker amiunt of 6 for the vespene [/quote]

I was more concerned with the lower numbers. 20 to 24 workers gains 28, then the jump from 24 to 28 where they would bump into each other more gains double, 56. This is what does not make sense to me.

but believe me it is the truth.

One thing that has 2 be considered here is gameplay. I can only make that many workers when I have 3 or more bases. Having that many bases is always risky bcos holding them on big 3v3 or 4v4 maps is hard. I loose lots of workers per game. The numbers that Ive given u in my starting post is the total workers made per game Nº. That doesnt mean I actually have that total nº working throughout each game.

It is due to bases being gained and then lost, since territory dynamics are far more active in SC2 than AoE, that I find the need 2 constantly build workers.

Another factor wich "forces" me into building as many bases as I do is bcos my own personal playstyle is super gas heavy, so I "have" 2 go and get my assimilators up in "neutral" ground alot!

What I have come 2 understand though is that having more than 50 workers at any given time is sufficient 2 fuel ur army. The reason why I end up spending so much more "unnecessary" minerals on workers is bcos I have 2 make up for the poor souls that where raided by m/m/m drops or Vrays cheese.

out

[quote=""Aaryn_GenD""]but believe me it is the truth.[/quote]

I'm not dis-believing you, I just feel it is wrong.