N3O Age Of Empires and Starcraft 2 Clan

great thread on TL:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmes ... _id=133917


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Timings on 6pool through 14pool, using the various orders. Supershort results: 12pool with double extractor before overlord, 11pool with single extractor before overlord, but 13+pool should always be with 9OL. Also, never ever ever overpool. 11pool with extractor trick is superior in every possible way.
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short version:
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I used the AI to test the various builds in a very consistent manner, to try to answer the question once and for all.

The 9 overlord is the best economic build, period.
Minerals at 2:15: 370

10 overlord can be used for 10pool and overpool, but is inferior to 9OL in every other possible respect to the tune of 10 minerals, and loses the small window of advantage it gets by building the 10th drone sooner by the time 10OL finishes its 11th worker.
Minerals at 2:15: 355

A single extractor trick doing the trick before building the overlord (11 drones then overlord) gives a small time window of about a 15 mineral advantage, between workers 11 and 14, but there's a cost, of around 5-10 minerals. Best case, you *might* be able to break even when compared to 9OL, but most of the time you'll lose 5-10 minerals.
Minerals at 2:15: 364

Single extractor trick after the overlord (10 drones, overlord, trick to 11 drones) is inferior to 10-T-OL in the 11-13 worker range, and is inferior to 9OL in the 14-15 range, so I honestly see no reason to ever trick this way, UNLESS you meant to 9OL, but forgot the overlord. In that case, this is your best way to try to catch back up, because the cost is 0-5 minerals instead of 5-10.
Minerals at 2:15: 369

The double extractor trick provides such a small advantage over the single extractor trick during even a smaller window that it should probably only be used exactly to 12 pool, and even then, there is an extra cost over the single extractor trick. It probably compares to the single extractor trick much like 10OL compares to 9OL, meaning that if you're doing something exactly on drone 12, you might use it, otherwise, the single trick is probably strictly superior.
Minerals at 2:15: 353 (imprecise, but again, likely strictly inferior to single trick except for fastest 12pool)

When they say overpool, do they mean building an extractor then a pool, then cancelling the extractor?

Yeah can someone explain what overpool means. i tried to search it from everywhere but didnt find anything

overpool means you get your pool before you get your first overlord i think.
i know that moose_ knows what it is exactly. :-P
as we can see now single extractor trick is useless as 11 pool is quite unpopular.
6pool for suicide rush, 10 pool and 14 are the standard ones. as i don't need 11 or 12 pool i wouldn't use the extractor trick(maybe 12 or 13 pool at very rare occasions if i scouted something fishy requiring this).
if you do the normal 14 pool always 9 overlord, i knew this for quite some time now and it helped my zerg early game tremendously.

Ok so overpool means that you get your spawning pool right after your first overlord. Moose himself told me this

ye figures. 10 overlord then wait till you got the minerals for pool =overpool :-P
overpool seems like the weakest of all lol some people even said never overpool

yea semms like overpool isnt really good in sc2 but in sc:bw it was a very common build in ZvZ.

hey, Aaryn_GenD ,loved your post on the zerg replay, but one thing struck me... whats the use of the creep you pour out from the overlords? is it for LOS ?

@ slay3r_ ,
prevents the enemy from building in that location iirc

oh ic thanks,

hey slayer it is for

a) LOS,
b) as dhd mentioned preventing your opponents from building there (a good way of doing this is letting the overlord do that on expansions so he can't take them without you noticing it)
c) to be able to build your buildings on the place (you can't build on normal ground)

okay cool, btw i've got a question on - how to fight a terran using zerg. they always supply block with siege tanks watch the block with 5 turrets around the siege tank and harrass me through air + drops with the medivac. when i try early rush the marines just gun down all my zerlings. if they dont harrass me they just marauder+marine+thor which is like very hard to beat. how would you guys come about fighting a defensive terran using zerg.

first get some speedlings then expand and tech to lair and make spire and baneling nest. then make mutalisks and zerglings and attack. If he has a lot of marines morph your zrglings into banelings and attack. easy

you make it sound simple , do you ever get roaches against terran, and can zerlings really take on maruaders and marines ?

zerglings can beat mara and marine if you dont let him build up a huge army of them. keep the pressure on and ull be fine. banelings helps also.
OFC the way i said is just one way to play against terran but it has been working well in my games.