Some Zerg Notes

Strategy and Replay Discussion, please state the matchup in the thread title

Moderators: Global Moderator, SC2 moderator

User avatar
36drew
Honorary Officer
Posts: 2713
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2007 6:22 am

Some Zerg Notes

Post by 36drew »

When I first started playing this game (and playing zerg to be specific), I started taking notes on various things that I thought I had learned from playing the game and reading some forums.  While it's not a comprehensive guide, here are some random tidbits I discovered in this game.
Terminology
-FE = fast expand
-AOE = area of effect
-AA = anti-air
-MBS = multiple building selection
-NP = neural parasite
-FG = fungal growth
-FF = force field

Early Game notes for standard play
-Make workers, then drones to gather @ 0:01 time mark.
-Better not to micro them, you don't gain anything and risk misclicking.
-Send them to the closest mineral patch
-9 overlord, continue droning for a standard build order
-Extractor trick seems useful for getting an 11 scout out, but isn't more economically sound than a 9 OL build.
-A fast expand hatchery has very little line of sight, so keep overlord #2 there to scout for proxy bunkers/cannons, etc.  Careful not to loose it to marine rushes.
-When placing your pool, it should go one one of two places:
    a. to block from lings running into your mineral line
    b. to block reapers from coming in from behind your mineral line.
    c. you never want it to be placed on creep close to your enemy, they can more easily scout it, and more easily destroy it in early game pushes.
-can drop an extractor before pool to get faster speedling upgrade
-building a 2nd hatch in your base is a mistake

Some Builds... (basic)
1)14 pool, 15 hatch
2)10 pool, ling rush


General Tips
-burrow a few zerglings at expansion for scouting/drone harassment, almost all zerg units can burrow.  Burrowed roaches/infestors can be moved across lowered supply depots. Unlike cloaked units such as observers or dark temps, they can not be revealed with the help of an emp round
-a planetary fortress on an island expo (like scrap station) can stop a zerg from dropping or nydusing there
-test rock boundaries to run in the back door and raid
-use buildings like evo chambers to make your mineral line harder to harass
-using attack move isn't always the best idea, since getting a good surround is important.  But when moving blindly ( to somehwere without line of sight), always move with attack move.
-Zerg ground units receive a 30% movement bonus on creep, with the exception of the Hydralisk - 50%, Queen - 170%, Spine/Spore Crawlers - 150% and Drones - 0%.
-units can be shift qeued when burrows (shift+r) so they pop out at a certain location

General Notes
-units on ramps or cliffs deal 100% damage to units and viceversa (this is different from sc 1, since units on the lowground did less damage)
-in team games, medivacs can heal your zerg units
-keep hitpoints bars on all the time, that way you can focus fire injured units, especially large units like thors
-ctrl + f1 selects all idle workers
-build two nydus networks side by side for faster ejection of units (if your spawning end of a nydus network dies, you DO NOT loose the units inside, you have to release them at your initial nydus location)
-you cab place a creep tumor on enemy creep for vision
-when deciding to mass army (lings for example), don't press s-z-z-z-z-z-z-z-, press s and HOLD the Z button down. it will mass faster than you can click.
-zerg fight well in wide open spaces, not choke points... terran do well in choke points and cliffs, especially
-keep a zergling at each xelnaga watch tower if you can... theyre cheap anyway
-roach hydra combo seems like a mistake vs. terran mech.
-zerg army is mobile in general, especially with creep highways
-faster moving units make a concave shape when fighting (for example, stalkers will concave when fighting hydras, and hyrdas will not since they are the slower unit)

Map Notes
-Desert oasis - hard to take natural expansion, but zerg can fast air rush, and speedlings can make it hard for opponent to take natural, really long rushing distance here... however, a bunker on the low ground can kill all your workers, so scout for cheese
-Metalopolis - hard to take natural expansion
-Inceneration zone - really hard map for zerg -> hard to take natural, not many good places to fight, back door rocks don't work well since you need to break two and you leave yourself open to attacks... seems like an auto-loss vs terran
-Steppes of war -
-Lost temple - seems well balanced? I think so...
-Kulas Ravine - seems well balanced too?
-Scrap station - seems like a FE build is the way to go... from here you can go just about any build

Zerg Units
Banelings - suicide units, can burrow, can explode when burrowed. Own all initial units (lings, marines, zealots).

Roaches - own helions, do well against thors. Have a tech that lets them heal fast when burrowed, for a bit later in the game.

Ultralisks - can absorb so much splash damage, though their bulky size may limit their value.

Overseer - contaminate - stops buildings from making units - i.e. starport-> banshee, does not stop static defenses like cannnons. Contaminate stops a floating terran building from being landed, or an orbital command from finishing. Contaminate with 2 overseers can stop command centers from making scv's... nice to slow down an enemies scv production.

Overlord - research speed upgrade at some poing, great scout, spew creep so that enemies can't expand on islands, etc (needs lair tech)

Infestors - with a group of infestors, keep the group selected and just press e on different units, this will neural parasite without having to select infestors one by one. Also, dropping infestors in the mineral line can work - > two casts of fungal growth will kill workers, one cast leaves them with 9 health.  Fungal growth in a normal fight is quite nice as well, seems nice vs terran.

Corruptors - can attack collossus ( a ground unit).

Mutalisks - get owned by thors! Great for raiding and keeping expo's in check.

Infested terrans (from queen) - Infested Terrans can be used as a form of worker harassment. Infested Terrans can soft counter harassing air units. The duration is not long but it can buy the player time to build spore crawlers.  A bit pricy at 125 energy.

About thors
Mutas stack, therefore thor splash damage + bonus against light = thors owning mutas.
Broodlords are a deecent counter to thors since they are armored and have long range, not a micro intense unit either.

About Helions
Helions own zerglings, especially with pre-igniter upgrade.

About Vikings
Can be used to harass overlords early, they do a good job at it.

About Ravens
Seeker missile tech can cause problems if a few are included in a terran mass

About Stalkers
Blink! Can get them to high ground, make for nasty hit and run, etc... still works even with a unit has been fungal growthed.

About Banshees
They kill workers so fast, and sometimes they get cloacked.  Need an overseer for detection.  Sometimes 2 queens per hatch can defend.

About Sensor Towers
Pricy, but they provide HUGE vision on the map.

About Planetary Fortress

Upgraded command center, also has a range upgrade too.  Common to see many scv's repair it while being attacked.


Insanity???
Overlord+Infestor+Overseer Harass:
Unload the infestor, fungal growth the entire mineral line, drop 1 or 2 infested terrans, retreat. Poof, 20-30 miners gone in the blink of an eye! Can happen so fast that static defenses aren't that effective, and armies cannot retreat.

Baneling Drops
Drop banelings down on the opponents mineral line and BOOM! 20 Workers gone! Combine this with other in-base strategies. (Nydus Worm in the back, fake doom drop while attacking another expo, etc.) you can even use my favorite unit the Overseer to poop a couple of infested terrans at the ramp, so that if workers manage to get away then ITs can sJapanesee some of them as they fly right towards them.
Discuss. :)
Last edited by 36drew on Tue Aug 09, 2011 11:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
DutchNvG
N3O Member
N3O Member
Posts: 416
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 5:59 pm
Location: Goirle, the Netherlands

Re: Some Zerg Notes

Post by DutchNvG »

Adam, this is just perfect! Since I am, for an unknown reason, having trouble with learning things about the Zerg and finding out the counter system in SC2 this will help me a lot.
"To be yourself in a world that is constantly trying to make you something else is the greatest accomplishment.” - Ralph Waldo Emerson
User avatar
36drew
Honorary Officer
Posts: 2713
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2007 6:22 am

Re: Some Zerg Notes

Post by 36drew »

Yeah, it's definetly interesting trying to learn a new counter system. Figuring out what all the different tags mean: light, mechanical, biological, massive, armored, etc.

Especially since some units counter things a bit oddly at the moment. It's like in the original AOE when dragoons had no counter. Skirms had no bonus against them. Some kinks like this are still being worked out in sc2.
User avatar
Aaryn_GenD
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 3555
Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2008 9:59 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Some Zerg Notes

Post by Aaryn_GenD »

nice write up i got a couple of questions

[quote=""36drew""]
-can drop an extractor before pool to get faster speedling upgrade
[/quote]

people do this?? never saw it yet seems cool^^

[quote=""36drew""]
-building a 2nd hatch in your base is a mistake
[/quote]

are you sure? i ehard it is useful in some situations, i.e. when you can't get an expo and wanna have tons of larvaes ready for you 2 hatch in base will make you swarm hard :-P
if i'm not mistaken i heard some german pro saying this
Image
User avatar
36drew
Honorary Officer
Posts: 2713
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2007 6:22 am

Re: Some Zerg Notes

Post by 36drew »

[quote=""Aaryn_GenD""]nice write up i got a couple of questions

[quote=""36drew""]
-can drop an extractor before pool to get faster speedling upgrade
[/quote]

people do this?? never saw it yet seems cool^^

[quote=""36drew""]
-building a 2nd hatch in your base is a mistake
[/quote]

are you sure? i ehard it is useful in some situations, i.e. when you can't get an expo and wanna have tons of larvaes ready for you 2 hatch in base will make you swarm hard :-P
if i'm not mistaken i heard some german pro saying this[/quote]

1. Yeah, absolutely. Many top ranking players get gas before pool so that when there pool is done, they can hit metabolic boost (speed upgrade) right away.

2. Generally it's a bad idea. Since a well managed queen will give you all the larva you need anyway. It would generally be better to manage your queen off of 1 hatch in your main, then to go 2 hatch in your main. And of course if you can expand it's even better.
User avatar
Aaryn_GenD
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 3555
Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2008 9:59 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Some Zerg Notes

Post by Aaryn_GenD »

ye i was talking about not having the chance to expand :-P
as you said,it needs no explanation that 2 bases- 2 queens>>> 2 hatch in one base
Image
User avatar
HeJurmhoanni
N3O Officer
N3O Officer
Posts: 628
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2008 8:37 pm
Location: Finland

Re: Some Zerg Notes

Post by HeJurmhoanni »

When the beta was still up almost all of the top players did gas before pool in ZvZ. Also if u r going for mass queen play in ZvZ you want to have two hatcheries at your natural for queen production. I think u might wanna add that to ur list :)
User avatar
36drew
Honorary Officer
Posts: 2713
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2007 6:22 am

Re: Some Zerg Notes

Post by 36drew »

Mass queens is more of a 2v2 strat though... just keep that in mind. And you are right that you can put a 2nd hatch to block your ramp for that.
User avatar
HeJurmhoanni
N3O Officer
N3O Officer
Posts: 628
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2008 8:37 pm
Location: Finland

Re: Some Zerg Notes

Post by HeJurmhoanni »

I believe that mass queens could become standart in 1v1 too, at least for a while. http://day9tv.blip.tv/ Check the daily #134 and all of the other mass queen dailies ater that. ;)
User avatar
36drew
Honorary Officer
Posts: 2713
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2007 6:22 am

Re: Some Zerg Notes

Post by 36drew »

I disagree. Over time the strat will be easy to see and easy to counter. The fact that queens move 170% faster on creep is one thing. Get them off creep and it's a whole different ball game.

Think of it as some cheesy Ottoman vanilla strat.
User avatar
froggyman
N3O Member
N3O Member
Posts: 152
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2010 3:08 am
Location: London

Re: Some Zerg Notes

Post by froggyman »

Did u watch Day9's daily on mass queen in Z v Z it works really well imo h/e only in Z v Z

They are quite a decent anti air unit.. with mass queens u can spread ur creep very quickly meaning that 170% will come into affect.. and if u have OP micro they are very hard to kill with well timed transfusing
User avatar
froggyman
N3O Member
N3O Member
Posts: 152
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2010 3:08 am
Location: London

Re: Some Zerg Notes

Post by froggyman »

I also donno if its helpfull or not but ive seen TLO do a double extractor trick before 8O
User avatar
HeJurmhoanni
N3O Officer
N3O Officer
Posts: 628
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2008 8:37 pm
Location: Finland

Re: Some Zerg Notes

Post by HeJurmhoanni »

[quote=""froggyman""]I also donno if its helpfull or not but ive seen TLO do a double extractor trick before 8O[/quote]
Yeah that way you spend additional minerals to get even faster drones after overlord and you dont stack any larva at all.
User avatar
HeJurmhoanni
N3O Officer
N3O Officer
Posts: 628
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2008 8:37 pm
Location: Finland

Re: Some Zerg Notes

Post by HeJurmhoanni »

[quote=""froggyman""]Did u watch Day9's daily on mass queen in Z v Z it works really well imo h/e only in Z v Z

They are quite a decent anti air unit.. with mass queens u can spread ur creep very quickly meaning that 170% will come into affect.. and if u have OP micro they are very hard to kill with well timed transfusing[/quote]
thats very true. Mass queens strat becomes even more poverful the later the game goes. when you get like 20 queens + 30 roach nothing can stop them if you micro well. you all should definitely watch those dailies i mentioned.
User avatar
36drew
Honorary Officer
Posts: 2713
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2007 6:22 am

Re: Some Zerg Notes

Post by 36drew »

Queens are good anti-air. You do have that part right. And I did watch Day 9's daily on mass queens some time ago. The only thing that makes the strat viable is good (and by good I mean great) transfusion. You have to be really caution that a zerg opponent just doesn't run 10 speedlings into your base and kill all your drones, or a few banelings for that matter. I just think that it doesn't get any cheesier than mass queens and that it will somehow be nerfed as a strat. Blizzard already removed the 170% bonus off creep since they said the whole purpose of queens was not to fight in battles. I just can imagine them changing this in one way or another.

Queens, chrono boosting, and muleing/scanning/supplying, were all desinged to increase early micro in SC2. None of which were designed for obvious combot.

I guess we shall see what blizzard suggests, but I hope they remove it (and I'm a zerg player!).

As for the double extractor trick. I would only do it under 2 circumstances:
-going for a 12/10 pool
-if you are going for only 1 ET, but your scouting drone happens to be near a geyser and you have the res to do it.
Post Reply