Aztec Fencing School

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Sun_Tzu1
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Aztec Fencing School

Post by Sun_Tzu1 »

I was going to ask which units the "Fencing School" card decreases the training time of - by 40%. Then I thought, don't be lazy, measure it yourself! So here were the results:

Predictably, it decreases the training times of:

Maces
Puma Spearmen
Arrow Knights
Jag Prowlers
(All infantry)

But not:

Coyote Runners
Eagle Knights
(Which aren't infantry)

From the firepit units, it decreases the train time of War priests, but not Skull Knights (at level 4) - which is a surprise because they are infantry.

And lastly, something I didn't realise, if your War Chief dies in also decreases the time to resurrect him.

Hope you find that useful if you didn't already know this.


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I__CHAOS__I
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Re: Aztec Fencing School

Post by I__CHAOS__I »

somebody calculated it was faster to get 10 war priest by using fencing school than by shipping 3 war priests.

anyhow, a very good card, but aztecs has so many good age II card it's hard to choose
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36drew
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Re: Aztec Fencing School

Post by 36drew »

Didn't know it affects Jags -- I would personally never play the card since you only need to click your firepit for a second to have uber fast infantry anyway -- then click it to attack dance or whatever.

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Re: Aztec Fencing School

Post by I__CHAOS__I »

that's only true if you already have 10 priests dancing which is not so obvious early game
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Re: Aztec Fencing School

Post by Cyclohexane »

[quote=""I__CHAOS__I""]somebody calculated it was faster to get 10 war priest by using fencing school than by shipping 3 war priests.

anyhow, a very good card, but aztecs has so many good age II card it's hard to choose[/quote]

That is not true but it does significantly decrease train time. If you change to the WP dance when your shipment of 3 WP arrives, it will take 3:41 to get 10 WP. If you ship fencing school and start dancing with 1 WP as soon as it arrives, it will take 6:29 to get 10 WP. To compare, it takes 10:49 starting with 1 WP to get to 10WP without the 3WP shipment or fencing school. Of course you would place villagers on the pit as well to speed things up but this is just a basic calculation available in my Quick Reference Guide (Fire Pit Summary Worksheet, must open the grouping buttons at top to see this). Fencing school may still be a better card due to the other bonuses available if you do not plan on just spamming Eagle Knights (not always possible to switch dancing). I always use it if I puma rush (or team games).

One of my proposed boosts to Aztecs (before aura boost) was to boost their early Fortress game by decreasing the train time of Warrior Priests. Since Agrarian ways is gone (and boost to mining / hunting that went with it), having more priests faster would give the boost to the Aztec economy needed to stay alive with their weak colonial units and expensive Fortress units.
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Re: Aztec Fencing School

Post by I__CHAOS__I »

thx Cyclo, I had never really taken the time to cross check that statement, I usually play both cards and get 10 priests really fast
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Re: Aztec Fencing School

Post by Cyclohexane »

Playing both cards is definately the way to go for a boom if you are not required to send military cards...

I know if I am up against an Aztec and they are not rushing me (and you will know this very soon), I will definately rush them. So either way, against an Aztec, I am going to have a Colonial army. They are very easy to predict:

Rush with maces
Rush with maces / coyotes
Rush with Puma
Rush with HI (ZAP rush)
Rush with Tlyloc canoes
Boat boom
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Re: Aztec Fencing School

Post by RascalJones »

Even I had success with the ZAP rush.

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Re: Aztec Fencing School

Post by Sun_Tzu1 »

In terms of War Priest production, I like to think of the Fencing School as permanently reducing the cost of War Priests. Before Fencing School, a War Priest's cost is something like a Skull Knight(?); after Fencing School, it's more like an Eagle Knight(?).

Also, if you've played Fencing School and your warpriests die, replacing them becomes much easier.

In those terms, I'm a little reluctant to ship 3 War Priests as well Fencing School because by having Fencing School you've devalued the 3 War Priest shipment. If I was going all the way with War Priests, I'd be inclined to ship Fencing School first, put on extra settlers (e.g. 6 settlers to match the 3 warpriest shipment?), and use the spare shipment to send something that those settlers could have collected the resources for, e.g., the 2 warhut card to complement the fencing school?).


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Cyclohexane
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Re: Aztec Fencing School

Post by Cyclohexane »

[quote=""Sun_Tzu1""]In terms of War Priest production, I like to think of the Fencing School as permanently reducing the cost of War Priests. Before Fencing School, a War Priest's cost is something like a Skull Knight(?); after Fencing School, it's more like an Eagle Knight(?).

Also, if you've played Fencing School and your warpriests die, replacing them becomes much easier.

In those terms, I'm a little reluctant to ship 3 War Priests as well Fencing School because by having Fencing School you've devalued the 3 War Priest shipment. If I was going all the way with War Priests, I'd be inclined to ship Fencing School first, put on extra settlers (e.g. 6 settlers to match the 3 warpriest shipment?), and use the spare shipment to send something that those settlers could have collected the resources for, e.g., the 2 warhut card to complement the fencing school?).


Sun Tzu[/quote]

Those are very good ideas, not to mention the card has other useful aspects (not always easy to switch to fertility to make more units, especially during a big battle).

In my Unit Comparison Spreadsheet (about to complete update for TAD and post in downloads this weekend), it gives the cost of fire pit spawned units based on their time to spawn and the total number villagers on the pit. I then assume those villagers would be on the mine (like a mercenary). Based on this thread, I am including a toggle switch for Fencing School with the Aztec WP train time / cost.

For example, a Skull knight with 20 villagers on the pit takes 18 seconds to spawn. 20*18*0.6 (mining rate) = 216 coin. 35 villagers on the pit makes them spawn in 9.8 seconds, so 35*9.8*0.6 = 206 coin. Of course, by age 4 when the dance is available, you will have either mining or farming upgrades and the 0.6 value is not accurate. For that reason, changing resources in the workbook is possible as well. Anyhow, 206 coin for a skull knight is a sweet deal, especially after the 3 area card is played. It is to bad coyotes are such a crappy support unit.
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Re: Aztec Fencing School

Post by Cyclohexane »

[quote=""Sun_Tzu1""]In terms of War Priest production, I like to think of the Fencing School as permanently reducing the cost of War Priests. Before Fencing School, a War Priest's cost is something like a Skull Knight(?); after Fencing School, it's more like an Eagle Knight(?).

Also, if you've played Fencing School and your warpriests die, replacing them becomes much easier.

In those terms, I'm a little reluctant to ship 3 War Priests as well Fencing School because by having Fencing School you've devalued the 3 War Priest shipment. If I was going all the way with War Priests, I'd be inclined to ship Fencing School first, put on extra settlers (e.g. 6 settlers to match the 3 warpriest shipment?), and use the spare shipment to send something that those settlers could have collected the resources for, e.g., the 2 warhut card to complement the fencing school?).


Sun Tzu[/quote]

Those are very good ideas, not to mention the card has other useful aspects (not always easy to switch to fertility to make more units, especially during a big battle). But keep in mind, the faster you get 10 WP, the faster your villager production will jump up. If you can save a couple minutes here, your economy will have a huge boost. Kind of the same concept of sending military versus economic upgrades. Sure economic upgrades are better long term, but if you dont send the military, you may not be there long term!

In my Unit Comparison Spreadsheet (about to complete update for TAD and post in downloads this weekend), it gives the cost of fire pit spawned units based on their time to spawn and the total number villagers on the pit. I then assume those villagers would be on the mine (like a mercenary). Based on this thread, I am including a toggle switch for Fencing School with the Aztec WP train time / cost.

For example, a Skull knight with 20 villagers on the pit takes 18 seconds to spawn. 20*18*0.6 (mining rate) = 216 coin. 35 villagers on the pit makes them spawn in 9.8 seconds, so 35*9.8*0.6 = 206 coin. Of course, by age 4 when the dance is available, you will have either mining or farming upgrades and the 0.6 value is not accurate. For that reason, changing resources in the workbook is possible as well. Anyhow, 206 coin for a skull knight is a sweet deal, especially after the 3 area card is played. It is to bad coyotes are such a crappy support unit.
Last edited by Cyclohexane on Sat Jan 26, 2008 2:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Aztec Fencing School

Post by Cyclohexane »

You forgot to mention that this card also decreases the spawn time of Warriors. -40% on this dance is huge (especially when combined with a full fire pit).

Early game this can be a real life saver and late game they do decent damage when you can spit out 6 in about 4 seconds and then switch to the attack dance.

With 35 dancers and fencing school, they are equivalent to about 15 gold each. When you switch to the attack dance (35 dancers), they do 37 damage (72 to siege troopers).
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