N3O Age Of Empires and Starcraft 2 Clan

Hi everyone. I haven't been on ESO too much lately, but I have been watching lots of recs. Here's something I have wanted to say for a long time: There are just some REALLY BORING matchups out there!

This doesn't necessarily mean that the players are bad. Quite the contrary, most of the matches I consider boring involve top rated players. I just think there are particular civ matchups that are, well, less than memorable. I think it has to do with the available units in each civ, as well as particularly hackneyed or "foolproof" strats that generate slam dunk wins on most occasions. In my view, all this adds up to straight up boredom for the viewer.

What do you think the most boring matchups are? I'm going to name my top 5, in no particular order. Sadly, these matchups are very popular on the FP. It's as if some civs are just out of the running completely. So here we go:

1. Dutch v. French : Oh dear, another 5 hussar semi-FF from both sides, followed by ruyter, skirm, 2 falcs, dragoons, cuirs and maybe a Swiss pike shipment, if you're feeling really adventurous... blah blah blah.

2. French v. French : Ugh, dual rax pike/xbow, followed by hussars and semi-FF for dragoons, skirms and 2 falc. BO-RING!

3. French v. British : A little better than the previous 2, since you might actually see some muskets and LBs for a change. But chances are it's going to be just another early hussar harass semi-FF type thing that favors France.

4. French v. Japanese : Ashi defense v. dual rax xbow and hussar semi-FF. Generally the Jap shrine booms, holds off the French with sentries, etc. and becomes OP in Age 3.

5. Dutch v. Dutch : Yet another inevitable 5 hussar harass, later ruyter skirm, maybe cannon thingy. Super micro-heavy. Requires lots of skill to win... utterly boring to watch.

You'll notice that 4 of the 5 involve France. I didn't do that intentionally; there is just something about French units that is downright unexciting. At least the Germans throw in an uhlan or doppel once in a while to spice things up. At least you might see a war dog or rod with the Spanish. Not so with the French. With the French, it's a big deal when a musket shows up (gasp).

OK, there's my initial effort! What ever happened to old-school matches like German v. Ottoman?? Or Spanish v. Ports: that's a fun one that you NEVER see. Even India v. Aztec is more interesting than these lame hussar harass things that have come into vogue lately. For all I whine about the TWC civs, they are pretty fun to watch! Look, I know people want to win--and these strats usually win--but entertainment value is not the same as win probability.

So what would you say?

japanese mirror are more boring then all other matchups
its all about who gets more herds and who has the better bo to get stronger ashis and a stronger eco in a short time

100% agreed: french are boring. And balance should have walked in the direction of not having to have to build a stables in 4 out of 5 games.

[quote=""Kaiser_von_Nuben""]
5. Dutch v. Dutch[/quote]

Most exciting game ever imo

That was old dutch mirror, new dutch mirror is all about which one dominates with cav early on.

[quote=""Sporting_Lisbon""]That was old dutch mirror, new dutch mirror is all about which one dominates with cav early on.[/quote]

Watch the dutch mirror the_demon vs mRcheese from hope tournament imo. That was a nice game.

i think the most borring matches are japanese , iro mirrors or france vs dutch. some of the more interesting matches ive ever watched were russia vs iro , japan vs aztec , india vs sioux. spain is alot of fun to watch/play sub 6 minutes due to wardog abuse and treasure creeping. german vs spain is probly my fav euro match to play/watch just because one civ specializes in anti cav while the other is cav heavy yet both can do either or if needed.

Anything with france, dutch, and brits is just boring IMO. They are way played out.

Good point, Dan. I like watching Spanish recs. And German v. Spain is a great match. I think it favors Germans pretty strongly, but your Spain is a serious exception to that rule!

Russian and Aztec recs are fun to watch. I also really like seeing an Otto once in a while. Same thing with Ports.

I agree about Iro mirrors, too. Really boring. On the other hand, most mirrors are boring, because you don't have that "civ vs. civ" interplay going on. I think the designers intended certain civs to be stronger against some than others. Certain unique units counter certain civs better and vice versa. In a mirror, you lose that extra something. With equally matched players, it's just a micro-fest.

portuguese have been and still are rather boring too imho, their turtle playstyle kinda limits the number of strats and the units are often predictable too

Dutch vs japan might be very instersting imo. Even though the dutch player has a huge advantage, it might be fun.

[quote=""I__CHAOS__I""]portuguese have been and still are rather boring too imho, their turtle playstyle kinda limits the number of strats and the units are often predictable too[/quote]

old ports was a lot of fun <3 I loved watching expert port recs, their wins were like godlike due to the difficulty of ports

[quote=""Kaiser_von_Nuben""]

On the other hand, most mirrors are boring, because you don't have that "civ vs. civ" interplay going on. I think the designers intended certain civs to be stronger against some than others. Certain unique units counter certain civs better and vice versa. In a mirror, you lose that extra something. With equally matched players, it's just a micro-fest.[/quote]

WHAT, I love mirroirs... i adore it. I love it in supremacy and even more in dm.

Mirroirs are fun...

[quote=""gendarme""]Dutch vs japan might be very instersting imo. Even though the dutch player has a huge advantage, it might be fun. [/quote]

Dutch v. Japan I actually like quite a bit. I like watching ashis get slaughtered by skirmishers; it just makes my day.

I remember a good old rec in which the Dutch player did a 4-bank FF against Japan, knowing that Japan would not be aggressive because of the shrine boom. Then he just spammed cannons and ruyters. He pwned the ashis, then the Japanese player went to fort and the game turned into an artillery battle: Falcs v. arrows. Very fun to watch.

@ Wicked: Some mirrors are more interesting than others. If you enjoy them in general, that's great. I just think that from the audience's perspective, they tend to fall on the boring side. French, British, Japanese, Iroquois and Dutch mirrors are the most boring, I think.

Now that I think about it, I don't think I've ever seen a really good Aztec mirror. I've seen lots of good German mirrors. Russian and Chinese mirrors can be pretty interesting, too.

[quote=""Kaiser_von_Nuben""]I think the designers intended certain civs to be stronger against some than others. Certain unique units counter certain civs better and vice versa. In a mirror, you lose that extra something. With equally matched players, it's just a micro-fest.[/quote]

yes that's how i do it. i use the civs as tools, some being good against others while the others aren't

i share your opinion to the fullest kaiser, i hate the 5+huss semi ff and this conservative playstyle. that's why i wanted people to play iro vs india or aztec india in obs games when drew and dan played :-P