The blind people woke up over there at Robot

General Discussion about Age of Empires III: Definitive Edition

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wicked_assassin
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Re: The blind people woke up over there at Robot

Post by wicked_assassin »

now 1.1 at least need some redesign afther this because double deck fix ...
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Comadevil
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Re: The blind people woke up over there at Robot

Post by Comadevil »

[quote=""luukje""]
If they really cared, they did a bad job. How can "amateurs" like Agesanc create a good balance patch, where professionnals like ES/RE failed?

Well they probably did try. If my memory is correct, they sometimes even enlisted top players.
[/quote]
Yes but this ended fast because soon after ES was closed
And
1. First ES are developers and they aren't Top 10 players, so they are the amateuers whether top players are professionals when it is concerning balance
2. ES has to think more about other issues too (Single Player, MS etc.) which aren't an issue for FP
3. RE was formed three months ago and then a patch which fixes some big issues is an achievement in my opinion. And that they took FP 1.0 as template for their patch which is quite an achivement for the community
Also the intention of RE was the same as for FP 1.0. Nerfing top civs.
[quote=""Aloysius,Robot""]
The primary driving force behind this patch was to fix double decking, and to address the primary balance issues present in TAD, not totally change the way every civ works.
[/quote]
Let's see what they will take from FP 1.1, though they announced they won't add all changes since some where too drastic from their point of view.
Hope that also the OOS fixes work well so we don't have to listen all the time to complaints about droptricking which weren't really droptrickery
Last edited by Comadevil on Tue Jun 02, 2009 6:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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ckei
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Re: The blind people woke up over there at Robot

Post by ckei »


?? sioux weren't touched at all i bet you read the wrong patch notes, as many ppl did kinda. juts read patch 1.02, every thing that comes after
read the twc patch. There are changes to native civs. Sound pretty dumb to me if they wouldnt do the same for the native civs in TAD
Last edited by ckei on Tue Jun 02, 2009 6:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Sporting_Lisbon
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Re: The blind people woke up over there at Robot

Post by Sporting_Lisbon »

And as others have said Japan laming didn't end in -5% consu, -2 atk on ashis and Toshogu shrine nerf. They didn't nerf the amount of export given by toshogu, which allows the consulate club rush with ashis helped by the fact that xbows still have 16x1.25 instead of 16x1.35.
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Re: The blind people woke up over there at Robot

Post by Comadevil »

Yeah i read it
==================================================================
Age of Empires® III: The WarChiefs v1.05
Patch Release Notes
==================================================================
Client Fixes

· Boat Particle Effects have been changed. This should result in better performance when using Navies.

· Fixed more out-of-sync bugs.

· Double Deck Exploit has been fixed.
No Sioux changes

The Sioux changes were in 1.04, so they are already applied
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luukje
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Re: The blind people woke up over there at Robot

Post by luukje »

@coma: I know you cant expect them to achieve perfect balance from the moment the game is released. 100.000 players know much more then a balancing team - even if you would enlist all top 10 players - they could never test everything they put in this game. The biggest noob can find some lame strat sometimes; it just needs a good player to exploit it.

But still, in my opinion, they could have gone for better balance much quicker. A few quick patches to nerf some obvious lame things and then some finetuning. AS are not professionals, ES/RE are. They get paid to do this. After three years and more of AOE3, they were always late and incomplete. Obvious suggestions from the community were ignored, when they did nerf a civ, they often went from top to bottom,...

Im glad RE is trying to get some of the pieces together. Im sad because a lot of players and a lot of time have been lost.
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Re: The blind people woke up over there at Robot

Post by GeneralMichael »

Ahh good they did not change the unction cards affect. Soo I can still be one of the few who lame Spain in treaty 40 games. I have only seen 3 or 4 other people who have played spain in treaty 40. Also I can still use my beloved azecs fire pit with 10 warrior priests to do a vill boom and pop out a vill every 3 seconds.
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Re: The blind people woke up over there at Robot

Post by Aaryn_GenD »

[quote=""Sporting_Lisbon""]And as others have said Japan laming didn't end in -5% consu, -2 atk on ashis and Toshogu shrine nerf. They didn't nerf the amount of export given by toshogu, which allows the consulate club rush with ashis helped by the fact that xbows still have 16x1.25 instead of 16x1.35.[/quote]

those -50 export what fp did is not that much of a differnce to club rush,
imo fp team even slightly overnerfed japan , robots changes seem more humane

plz don't bash ES8, many of their original ideas were rejected because they would change the game design too much
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Re: The blind people woke up over there at Robot

Post by LaZy »

Chris I disagree with ur line of thought here bro

[quote=""Blackadderthe4th""]You just got to learn how to counter opris, if you ever let a Russian player get to the stage where they can brainlessly spam opris your doing something wrong and would lose anyway.[/quote]

So u agree that spamming opris is brainless. Yay. Btw am I playing wrong if I let a Russian player reach fortress?

[quote=""Blackadderthe4th""] Take away their surprise and they ain't much of a threat. You do this with walls and map control, and if you don't have this you are probably going to lose anyway. [/quote]

walls and map control? are u serious? thats exactly what opris take down the fastest Chris. From ur entire defensive post u failed 2 acknowledge the 1 thing that truly makes the opri a brainless unit. The fact that it has a pathetic high siege attack and is able 2 run! Walls dont stop opris, neither will a tower or a new fb. They are designed 2 take those out quickly.

Ur luv for the civ just blinds ur rational thinking bro.

[quote=""Blackadderthe4th""]

I don't think cuirs are too bad either anymore, and yes you can say this is because I make them [/quote]

thats the exact same argument u have with opris. U wont disaprove of a unit u spam every time u use that civ. Thus making the unit brainless. This is true not specifically about u though Chris. Its true for every1 that plays Russia or France! Im not calling the players that use them brainless. Im saying that the units themselves become brainless when spammed and abused. So u dont have 2 feel all insulted by it.

[quote=""Blackadderthe4th""] I'd rather have slightly strong cuirs then a waste of time unit that makes France completely bland.
[/quote]

Its their eco that make them strong Chris. If u nerf broken cuirs just a little bit, France would remain a formidable civ 2 play!


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Re: The blind people woke up over there at Robot

Post by Blackadderthe4th »

Lazy walls and towers vs opris alone doesn't work. I probablly didn't explain this well. Walls and map control allows you to anticipate the threat. Its probably doing this that makes you lose vs them so much. You need units as well, manys the time, when I have used opris, I just took down a tc and at the point I'm about to get the vils my entire force is killed my a handful of enemy units. This is because they suck in killing anything other then villies and buildings, you use the walls and towers to anticipate the attack and move units there. A handful of goons/sams/dopps or w/e will save you. I play Russia a lot and know that your first mass of opris isn't instant GG, quite often better players leave them useless. You need complete surprise in order to achieve the killing blow, without it you just run from one base to another being whittled down until you can't achieve anything.

Opris in fortress aren't brainless. Quite often they are an investment that needs looking after, all that food spent on opris that could have been spent spamming vils. They do not become brainless until Industrial where they get really high siege and your eco allows you to spam them. If they were such a powerfull unit then all a Russian would have to do would FF and its GG. This is simply not the case. Letting a Russian get to fortress is not the problem its giving them room to breathe. If you are gonna do this wall up.

If my love of the civ blinds me, then possibly your experiences vs them, blinds you when saying they are a completely brainless unit. They are not. At least not until late Industrial when your eco is kicking. You see an Russian in fortress you expect opris, as they can not tank through any other unit slipping under the radar can be quite tricky when the other team is expecting it. Which they always should be if they wish to survive.

P.S. I don't think France is weak, just bland, boring, nothing special or exciting apart from the cuir.
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Re: The blind people woke up over there at Robot

Post by Hydrovert5 »

[quote=""Blackadderthe4th""]P.S. I don't think France is weak, just bland, boring, nothing special or exciting apart from the cuir.[/quote]

They have one of the best crossbow/pike masses early in the game, and they're relatively easy to learn. :)

I think I understand your point Chris. If you have map control, well not map control neccesarily but a lot of the map under your LOS, you can see and react faster to oprichniks than if you have nothing there at all.

That's the killer thing after oprichniks - your TC can be there one minute and gone the next if you don't scan your radar frequently.
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Re: The blind people woke up over there at Robot

Post by Sporting_Lisbon »

[quote=""Aaryn_GenD""][quote=""Sporting_Lisbon""]And as others have said Japan laming didn't end in -5% consu, -2 atk on ashis and Toshogu shrine nerf. They didn't nerf the amount of export given by toshogu, which allows the consulate club rush with ashis helped by the fact that xbows still have 16x1.25 instead of 16x1.35.[/quote]

those -50 export what fp did is not that much of a differnce to club rush,
imo fp team even slightly overnerfed japan , robots changes seem more humane

plz don't bash ES8, many of their original ideas were rejected because they would change the game design too much[/quote]

ES8 did a great job, I'm not saying they didn't, I'm just referring to the people that use ES8 job as a prove to say that experts can't balance the game perfectly.

-50 export means an extra club. Yumis are super strong in AS 1.01, here they didn't get golden pavillion nerf nor card nerf. Japan is far from weak in AS 1.01. Most people agree that ashis are still strong as well.

And in case no one noticed, India's Agra fort rush didn't get nerfed in their patch. That's pr 15-25 player's biggest fear in India, not zamburaks. Camels are a problem for higher pr that don't care about agra rush. Their wood trickles didn't get nerfed.

This is a fail patch. Gj on nerfing 9 xbows to 8 without boosting xbows overall. The good part is that Aztec and Iro are closer to Japan and India so there are 4 civs to abuse instead of just 2 - very cool for lamers.
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Re: The blind people woke up over there at Robot

Post by etrips888 »

I agree with sporting, this robot patch doesn't even fully fix the jap and india problems.
The fan patch is where the best balance is, and thats what I'm planning to stick to. Going to the robot patch is just a step backward, barely moving past where they were in the ES patch.
Playing with the FP has always had its own issues, mostly just with the amount of people who don't use it, but I don't think thats a good enough reason to drop the FP now. The balance is what is making this game so much fun right now, and honestly I usually don't even have that many problems finding games, especially when I can play with all of you guys :)
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Re: The blind people woke up over there at Robot

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ckei
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Re: The blind people woke up over there at Robot

Post by ckei »

ok,lol my bad :oops:
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