Is Japan overated ?

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ZoRPrimE
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Re: Is Japan overated ?

Post by ZoRPrimE »

[quote=""StrokeyBlofeld""]

I agree with you mostly here, but saying it ruins the game is a bit strong. There are more units that are not accurate, it's not just the Ashigaru.

As for stats, you must go off the information provided, not just speculation of who plays a civ and what other effects can change the %. Without all the information to anylize, the fact remains that Japan have a low win % compared to all the other civs.[/quote]

I honestly don't think anyones trying to slam Japan or call it OP! The strongest thing I said was ruins game balance. I didn't get into wether it ruins the game as a whole which I don't think it does. If someone whole heartedly exploits a game balance issue that has yet to be fixed, I think it's legitimate to give a gripe about it and back up someones statement about how bad it is/isn't. Especially since Navs response in this post is the first I've heard of it.

I guess reffering to the gerneralized win stats you can say The inbalance ashigeru attack isn't so big that it completely dominates win percentage. Good chance its due to the fact the balance issue comes late enough only some civs are hindered by it. Doesn't really have much to do with the fact the boosts shouldn't stack though.
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Re: Is Japan overated ?

Post by KingKaramazov »

[quote=""StrokeyBlofeld""]

People seem a little upset here, and feel Japan is OP. Let me just mention that out of all 14 civs, 12 civs have a better win % than Japan.
Japan has lost more games than it has won. Yes, Japan is used a lot, but it seems to me that these stats suggest that there is not much OP or UP about Japan.[/quote]

Strokey, that's because all noobs play Japan. Overall win % has very little to do with civ balance.

Brits historically have had a very low win %, but that's because all noobs play Brits because they are the demo civ. Japan is also the demo civ, and the most popular civ among the general player base at the moment. The win % means nothing.
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Re: Is Japan overated ?

Post by StrokeyBlofeld »

[quote=""KingKaramazov""][quote=""StrokeyBlofeld""]

People seem a little upset here, and feel Japan is OP. Let me just mention that out of all 14 civs, 12 civs have a better win % than Japan.
Japan has lost more games than it has won. Yes, Japan is used a lot, but it seems to me that these stats suggest that there is not much OP or UP about Japan.[/quote]

Strokey, that's because all noobs play Japan. Overall win % has very little to do with civ balance.

Brits historically have had a very low win %, but that's because all noobs play Brits because they are the demo civ. Japan is also the demo civ, and the most popular civ among the general player base at the moment. The win % means nothing.[/quote]

I understand what your saying, but you can't just assume that it is because all noobs play Japan. A lot of high rank players play Japan also, and a lot of middle rank players. Granted, some civs tend to only be played by better players as they are difficult to manage. China are also played by a lot of low rank players because they are (by general opinion) OP and considered reasonably easy to play, but their win % is the highest in the game, and they are 2nd most used behind Japan.

Zorp... I agree completely that boosts shouldn't stack, and to be honest, if they Ashigaru was brought down to more of a musketeer level along with the upgrades, then it would be a more balanced unit, but then the cost would also need to be adjusted.

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Re: Is Japan overated ?

Post by kingchrisII »

people say that its better than the musk, but it should be!!!
it costs an extra 4 food, and 15 coin lol...not too much but hey

although I think yumi are worse, because at least ashis still die to their counters, where as throwing hussar against like 100 yumi they get chewed up, and u lose a lot before it reaches them!!!

and i am at a about a sergeant level, and most of my games are with master serg - 1st lt level, and i must say tht most of the people play as japs, so its not too fair to say that mainly noob play them!

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Re: Is Japan overated ?

Post by Navarone_Guy »

Well, Chris, the reason your cav are dying to yumi is because you're not flanking. (It could also be due to lack of upgrades or numbers) Have light infantry engage from the front and then charge in cavalry from the back. Then they can't hit and run.
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Re: Is Japan overated ?

Post by KingKaramazov »

[quote=""StrokeyBlofeld""]

I understand what your saying, but you can't just assume that it is because all noobs play Japan. A lot of high rank players play Japan also, and a lot of middle rank players. Granted, some civs tend to only be played by better players as they are difficult to manage. China are also played by a lot of low rank players because they are (by general opinion) OP and considered reasonably easy to play, but their win % is the highest in the game, and they are 2nd most used behind Japan.

[/quote]

I'll grant you that China is a lot easier to play than Japan.

But citing the fact that a lot of top players and mid-level players play Japan is rather irrelevant because the vast, vast majority of players are really low level (noobs). The portion of the ESO population that is actually moderately skilled is a small fraction indeed.
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Re: Is Japan overated ?

Post by ZoRPrimE »

[quote=""Navarone_Guy""]Well, Chris, the reason your cav are dying to yumi is because you're not flanking. (It could also be due to lack of upgrades or numbers) Have light infantry engage from the front and then charge in cavalry from the back. Then they can't hit and run.[/quote]

Yeah I'm having a tough time but slowly learning that you have to seperate out your armies to be effective. I hate to redirect but team games are where I really got lazy with micro.
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Re: Is Japan overated ?

Post by Blackadderthe4th »

Tell me about it. Playing nothing but team games for almost a year has made my micro atrocious. I've gotten so used to just spamming units whilst half watching the telly that in the few 1v1s I've tried I keep making horrible mistakes with micro that cost me the game. I'm having trouble beating players who before I used to beat without thinking. The old flanking cav trick really works wonders though.

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BashUgood
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Re: Is Japan overated ?

Post by BashUgood »

[quote=""Blackadderthe4th""] I'm having trouble beating players who before I used to beat without thinking. [/quote]

Well GoSh :? ....
That's your problem bud...
Stop thinking..
Don't you know it's over rated...
Become one with your keyboard and just let it all flow like gas from the Good ol' Fart Factory.. 8)

( Before you ask, No.. the Fart Factory is not an AoE3 card. )
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Re: Is Japan overated ?

Post by Navarone_Guy »

*Cough cough Naturephoenix plays Japan*

Fart factory SHOULD be a card. Damages all enemy units by 1 every 10 seconds.
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Re: Is Japan overated ?

Post by StrokeyBlofeld »

[quote=""KingKaramazov""][quote=""StrokeyBlofeld""]

I understand what your saying, but you can't just assume that it is because all noobs play Japan. A lot of high rank players play Japan also, and a lot of middle rank players. Granted, some civs tend to only be played by better players as they are difficult to manage. China are also played by a lot of low rank players because they are (by general opinion) OP and considered reasonably easy to play, but their win % is the highest in the game, and they are 2nd most used behind Japan.

[/quote]

I'll grant you that China is a lot easier to play than Japan.

But citing the fact that a lot of top players and mid-level players play Japan is rather irrelevant because the vast, vast majority of players are really low level (noobs). The portion of the ESO population that is actually moderately skilled is a small fraction indeed.[/quote]

And so by your own statement that the vast majority of players are "noobs", we can also assume that because of this the players using all the other civs are "noobs" too...........

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Re: Is Japan overated ?

Post by KingKaramazov »

Yes, but far more noobs use Japan than other civs, get it? :)

I think if you want a more reliable result you should try to find statistics that narrow down results from certain PR ranges.

To Nav: Just because NP plays a civ doesn't mean it's strong...his OPness makes up for the UPness of the civs he plays :P
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Re: Is Japan overated ?

Post by StrokeyBlofeld »

[quote=""KingKaramazov""]Yes, but far more noobs use Japan than other civs, get it? :)

I think if you want a more reliable result you should try to find statistics that narrow down results from certain PR ranges.

To Nav: Just because NP plays a civ doesn't mean it's strong...his OPness makes up for the UPness of the civs he plays :P[/quote]

Like I said, I understand what your saying.. so yes... I get it. NOW PROVE IT!!!! Can you????
As I have been trying to explain, without ANY REAL STATISTICS on the PR range of players using Japan as their primary civ in rated games... YOU CAN'T assume it can you!! ;)

I have agreed on numerous occasions, that yes, noobs play Japan, noobs play other civs too. No matter what you pressume to know, you do not know that more noobs (on a % base of all players using Japan) play Japan more than any other civ. It is just not possible!

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Re: Is Japan overated ?

Post by KingKaramazov »

Japan is by far the most played civ (by statistics). Since noobs make up the vast majority of the ESO population, there must be far more noobs playing Japan than mid to high level players. There aren't enough mid to high level players to fill up the fraction of the ESO population that plays Japan while still having anybody playing the other civs.

:)

In any case, I still say that regardless of the "noob" factor win percentage doesn't really mean much when talking about civ balance.

Japan is a decent civ but they really suck in a few matchups which prevents them from being anywhere near a top tier civ.
"Why are some people all grasshopper fiddlings, scrappings, all antennae shivering, one big ganglion eternally knotting, slip-knotting, square-knotting themselves?  They stoke a furnace all their lives, sweat their lips, shine their ey

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Re: Is Japan overated ?

Post by LaZy »

Yes overrated. No, not overpowered atm

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