TWC civs i just cant beat them......

[retribution1423]

Hi i usually play russia, vs aztecs cyotes rip through every thing i cant seem to win, soiux axes rip through everything.... ok i havent played to many iroq player lately but advise on vs them would be good!

can anyone help im 1st lt atm so people higher or equal to that id apretiate some help!

Thanks guys!

[Kaiser_von_Nuben]

TWC civs are easily the most OP challenges for Euro civs. The easy solution is not to play them. Against Aztec and Iro, go massive defense with MM and walls. Against Sioux, check to see if they are going to pistol rush you or if they have morning star. If they don't, check to see if a stable goes up early in colonial. If it does, rush them with HI. They won't have wood for a hut and after their 6 shipped archers die you've got 'em.

That's a very basic nutshell. I know it is frustrating! Aztecs drive me crazy as the Germans. If you play British, it's even worse.

[adeadmanrunning]

well i may only be a ms but have been told i should be a 1st lue or captain. if that means anything ok. i play aztecs and used to play sioux so i may be able to help. vs sioux their musks do next to nothing because they are so weak i have gone all axe rider vs russian musks and won because axe > russian musks. cossack might work but then br beat them.

vs aztecs i would say a mix of cossack and musk. go pure cossack in the begginng age 14 vills 7 food 7 gold is what i do. ship 13 strelet as first card to deal with any early puma and then move fast wait to long and the coys with card and fp will own you if he holds u off that long mix in musk and maby some strelets but thats all i cant think of. hope this helps.

[I__CHAOS__I]

wait for the next fanpatch

[Hydrovert5]

What you have to remember is that Native civs are no match for European civs in terms of economy. They don't have the market upgrades, nor the economy cards that you can get. This probably means you're better off walling in and letting your economy boom before grinding him into the dust with your upgraded units.

And against Aztecs, something that almost never fails is the Spanish Lancer FF.

Backed by skirmishers, it's deadly.

[Tubruk]

an FF Vs an aztec rush =/
even if you get to fortress GL getting your houses back, Military Buildings up and above all getting the lancers and skirms out, when coyotes alone beat that combo.

[Hydrovert5]

If you're quick, you can reach Age III by 6:20.

And I'm not sure what you mean when you say coyote runners beat Spanish lancers...

24X3/4 damage per hit?

And if your houses get hit, send 1000W - no problem.

[Tubruk]

i dnt think that counts Vs Light inf, only ranged and heavy.
have you tested?

and saying to send 1k wood is all well and good but thats just delaying the lancers even further.
not to mention the TC idle time from it.

[Hydrovert5]

Lancer's bonus is versus all infantry ie. those not on horseback, and considering that Aztecs can only get infantry...

The Spanish FF doesn't require you to ship Lancers, although 4/3 can be useful when you're running low on them.

And after you ship 700G to age to III, ship 700W after that, and try to build your houses away from the area where you're gonna be fighting - that's the beauty of building placement.

[Tubruk]

Just Tested 2 coyote vs 1 lancer = coyote win
10 coyote beat 5 lancer, 9 coyote beat 5 lancer, both with 5 coyote left. they dont get a bonus vs Light Infantry. and all tests did not have a fire pit.

[I__CHAOS__I]

lancer dont get bonus vs coyotes imho and i doubt you can ever get to III sub 7 min
FF is a no go atm

[Tubruk]

[quote=""I__CHAOS__I""]lancer dont get bonus vs coyotes imho and i doubt you can ever get to III sub 7 min
FF is a no go atm[/quote]

+1 ,

[Kaiser_von_Nuben]

[quote=""I__CHAOS__I""]lancer dont get bonus vs coyotes imho and i doubt you can ever get to III sub 7 min
FF is a no go atm[/quote]

I agree. I haven't done a straight German FF since 2007 (with some exceptions in vanilla). Against a strong Aztec rush, what can the Germans do? It takes AT LEAST 7 min to age with skirms, and if you do that, what can 6 skirms do against 10 coyotes, 19 maces, 2 SKs., 6+ pumas and a bunch of converted guardians? And why send 9 uhlans if there are a bunch of pumas and SKs hanging around your TC, assuming there is a TC left after 7 mins

In this roundabout way, I concur that FF is a no-go against Aztec Maybe a long semi-FF would work, but it's all about resisting that rush at first, and that takes frantic colonial wrestling.

[Hydrovert5]

Maybe if you substitute 3 villager card in discovery for colonial militia, it could be a different story?

This is just on-the-paper speculation here guys. I haven't tried this in a game yet, but I intend to when I get some free time. I'll keep you posted.

[adeadmanrunning]

[quote=""Hydrovert5""]Maybe if you substitute 3 villager card in discovery for colonial militia, it could be a different story?

This is just on-the-paper speculation here guys. I haven't tried this in a game yet, but I intend to when I get some free time. I'll keep you posted. [/quote]

hydro when yuo want to test it and im on tell me i need some practice anyways.