interesting fanpatch changes

[James246]

Otto's are like in Tier 4... I can't understand how you are saying they are so OP =/

[Hydrovert5]

I think Ottos are vunerable.

I know from experience that their economy leaves a lot to be desired, and their units are strong.

However, shut down an Otto economy and you've more or less knocked him out of the game.

Unlike other civs where attacking head-on is the way to go, it's not the case with Ottos.

You have to wear them down eventually and gradually, then go for the throat. If you attack them head-on, you're gonna come off worse.

[TheRam]

[quote=""James246""]Otto's are like in Tier 4... I can't understand how you are saying they are so OP =/[/quote]
That simply isn't true.
They're tier 2 judging from how much people use em in QS at higher PRs and the fact that they're aren't stupidly vulnerable to anyone on land or sea.

[I__CHAOS__I]

[quote=""Cammel""][quote=""James246""]Otto's are like in Tier 4... I can't understand how you are saying they are so OP =/[/quote]
That simply isn't true.
They're tier 2 judging from how much people use em in QS at higher PRs and the fact that they're aren't stupidly vulnerable to anyone on land or sea.[/quote]

agreed, otto are overall a solid civ with plenty of viable strats. You never really know what they're up to

[cheesehat]

Oh hell, can we NOT make EVERY CIV PERFECTLY BALANCED IN EVERY SINGLE WAY

Janissaries received more cavalry bonus, however, they were previously able to go 1v1 with an Ashigaru (9 hits to kill ashi, 10 hits for the ashi to kill the Jan, 9 hits leaves jan on 1hp) but no-one complained about the OPness of Janissaries. This is due to the Ottos weaker economy meaning they cant mass 999999999 Ashis in 10 seconds as opposed to Japan (and Daimyos). Now, after Patch, Jans can no longer compete with Ashi 1v1 and are thus theoretically nerfed (hopefully they can compete with Patched ashi).

Every Civ has a strong Unit (or in the case of Japan...)

France - Gendarme
Japan - Yamabushi, Ashigaru, Yumi Archer, Naginata Rider...
India - OPOPOPOPOP Zamburak
Otto - Abas gun (please don't Nerf the only OP unit Otto has)
Spain - Lancer (To an extent) + Rod spam (seriously, if you've ever played treaty vs them)
Russia - OPrinick
Port - Cassador until they got nerfed, hence Ports are now practically useless

[KingVint]

Port goons are pretty amazing.

Anyway, I think they are decreasing the level of OPness of certain units, which would make things like counters actually work against them (mostly in the case of Gendarme). Civs will still have a single or few amazing units, but the overall civ will be balanced. Hence, requiring more skill, not mindless spam and slaughter.

[djdan]

You may say the spammability of the Ashi was a contrbuting fact to their 'OPness', when in most fact it was the amount of Age 2 upgrades they got, their speed, you may say Jans and Ashi may 9 hit kill each other but if you add the old Isolation bonus, all the cards they got, and they hit and run Ashis would abdolutely murder Jans, I think Jans need atiny boost on their multiplier against cav, they just dont seem to be as good against cav as theyre suppose to be, they are mean to be the tanks that protect Abus(with their huge hitpoints in age 2).

Its not the rods themselves that are OP its themissionaries behind them, the fact that their aura stacks is just ridiculous imo.
Lancers are only OP after you send the amount of cards they have(like 5 or something?) ad they dont seem to stand up against other cav I have found Uhlans>Lancers(going back to the 3v3/4v4 against lazy's lancers )

Didnt Zams get nerfed in the patch?

Like King said Ports have the goons + Organ guns, and Cassadores are still pretty strong after you send their age 4 cards to boost them

You seem to forget this game is based on Supremacy, not Treaty so the game is mainly balanced early to mid game, anything that balances for treaty is a bonus.

[TheRam]

Cheesehat your rant is misplaced, if you read the fanpatch notes they're not trying to make every civ balanced in every single way, and no-one is asking for that. If you've used Jannis they're alright, but they're sluggish and vs Ashi they would always get demolished, that's the nature of the skirm/musk hybrid.
Also, I'm not sure how Jannis aren't good against cav, they do it fine imo when I've been playing, with the mams/gemdarme dying cost effectively, late game ofc this is a different matter perhaps? But I was using 20 Janni to beat 4 or 5 mahout and that speaks for itself.
Also, your OP units are off. Port goons are exactly what makes port lame late game. Jap units aren't that op, and Yabusame actually suck quite hard.

[Sporting_Lisbon]

Cheesehat what you said only applies to treaty, which is 20% of this game and it is actually going to be fixed too

[cheesehat]

Are you suggesting Ashigaru isnt Op outside of treaty?

After Recalc Jans actually beat Ashi 1-1 situation, w/ the +10% ashi attack card they draw 9 hits a piece.

[I__CHAOS__I]

you can't just compare 2 units and base balance on that... it's all about the whole picture. Each civ has stronger points and weaker ones.
Abus pwn ashis way faster than yumi kill jans, how about that?

[Sporting_Lisbon]

Ashigaru as been nerfed, I don't get your point. Plus, they're different units.