Goals Thread

[Navarone_Guy]

Notice how I didn't mention great house and the starting travois.

They got two of their major OP advantages fixed, but that's nowhere near enough to make the Iro anything but blatantly OP.

[KingKaramazov]

[quote=""Navarone_Guy""] For example, KK, you suddenly jumped to above your previous TWC rank (Which means you got about four PR higher and 100 ELO higher than you were before), in a matter of 20 or so games. I don't think you spontaneously concocted the ultimate strategy and all of the sudden became better, because that takes time. You just started playing Iroquois.

Sorry if I'm being mean here, but I've played against Iroquois enough to thoroughly despise any attempt at making them seem like a civilization rather than a cheat.[/quote]


Okay, well, Nav, first of all, I don't know what PR you think I used to be but I was definitely not PR 20 in TWC, and have not been for a long, long time. I "jumped up" less than 1 PR. Second of all, the fact that I "jumped up 100 elo" points is probably more due to the fact that I've actually played some rated games for once, when before I hardly ever played rated.

I never said I "spontaneously concocted the ultimate strategy"...I think we both know that playing this game isn't about concocting amazing strategies that allow you to win every game. That sounds foolish and stupid, especially coming from a player as skilled as you are. Also, I would say that definitely I have gotten better since I last played rated games consistently, which is why rose and am rising in rating (hopefully).

I already told you not all of those games were with Iroquois.

As for the rest of your points, Chaos already refuted a lot of them, but still....

I agree that the upgrade cards are very nice, but I mean, come on, how often in a 1v1 is somebody going to be able to send all of those cards before Age 4 unless it's a team game? Plenty of other civs get a lot of upgrade cards too, but you don't complain about those. I notice you ignore the ridiculous amounts of upgrades that Japanese units are able to get (and not just from cards), especially Ashigarus...talk about fortress age units being as good as industrial units. How about COLONIAL units being almost as good as industrial age units?

Crackshot is certainly overpowered, I'll give you that.

Also, come on, light cannons being the equivalent of culverins, mortars, etc? Yes, they are good, but their strength lies in the fact that they are all-round cannon units - they can counter artillery, are decent against infantry as well as buildings. But they aren't nearly as good as any of the specialized cannons at doing one particular job. You sound foolish if you try to say that they are. Plus, like Chaos said, it's not common for people to actually get to the point where they use a lot of Light Cannons anyway, especially now that GH isn't really a viable strategy anymore.

Overall, I think you over-exaggerate the strength of the Iroquois by a wide margin. You make it sound like they are the end-all be-all civ that can take on all others with no problems and that all top players should play. Obviously that isn't the case. They are definitely strong, but they aren't THAT strong.

It's pretty obvious that you just totally hate the Iroquois and feel animosity towards anybody who plays them. You're certainly the only person I've heard recently being so vehement about Iro OPness. If you go to AgeSanctuary, where most of the top players post, Iros are considered in the top 5, but by no means are the most OP or even very OP at all, unless you're comparing them to the weaker civs.

Don't try to act as if it's not just as if not more lame when people play Dutch or China and win against people who are 4-5+ PR above them.

[KingKaramazov]

Oh look, how convenient:

http://agesanctuary.com/index.php?porta ... opic=98900

[36drew]

I won't say much except that since the Iro nerfs they aren't OP anymore. Just a strong civ. Most civs had a simple counter availible anyway.

[Navarone_Guy]

I guess you're right in that I completely despise them in every way and nothing short of deleting them from the game can change that. The fact that I play Ports and Germans doesn't help. I've decided to give French another shot.

[kingchrisII]

what about japanese nav, you have most of your games as japanese lol
and yeah some practice 1v1s would be nice
tried vs craz earlier and beat his dutch!

[KingKaramazov]

I would play France but I always get bored of them...plus they aren't OP enough to make up for their boringness, lol.

Germany is like a more interesting yet much weaker version of France (imo).

The Portuguese...well...kind of goes without saying.

If everybody and their mother didnt' play Japanese I might give them a try.

It's too bad good 'ol mother Russia is rather borked, too.

[I__CHAOS__I]

I have that same problem with France ... they bore me so friggin fast, and I end up xbow spamming all the time, other strats are hardly viable
(FF is ok in some rare cases)

maybe I should lame some portugese ... they have a totally OP FF

[36drew]

^ The port FF isn't lame -- it's a great strat that takes deecent skill to execute properly. I have much respect for port FF players.

[ZoRPrimE]

Well I'm officially quiting China 1v1's at this point. Its got to be to lame, I'm winning China mirrors as well as vs. other civs but I can tell it's just way too much coming too strong too early for anyone to do much about it.

China in 3v3 random is still on but I'm thinking hosts may start hosting no China 3v3's or making sure no more than one on a team. Just played a game 4 people played China!! 3 of us ended up on a team! not really fair.

[KingKaramazov]

I think Chaos was kidding. Port FF is their best strategy and a hard one to do at that!

[36drew]

Hmm.. I would disagree on the port FF being their best strategy. It is equally is strong or 2nd to their FI. The key being that have some units to harass with along the way so it isn't a totally gutless FI. A fort helps too.

[KingKaramazov]

Yea, I've always found FI's too risky -- I have trouble with most civs making an FF worthwhile. I just feel like with Ports the only reason to stay in Age 2 is if you're going to boat boom. Otherwise there are other civs that can do age 2 much better, France if you want to go for hussars / xbows / pikes and brits or even spain if you want to go for musks.

[Navarone_Guy]

The Port water boom is good, the FF is decent, but once they get to industrial, heavy cannons and 20 range goons is pretty hard to beat...

I prefer a raiding turtle, though.

[KingKaramazov]

Yea. Port Industrial is indeed very strong but unfortunately the likelihood of getting there in most matchups with stronger civs is rather small.