Civ counters

[huGGy]

[quote=""36drew""]http://agesanctuary.com/index.php?porta ... pic=113682[/quote]

Great. Thanks alot, i read the whole thread. Well, i think it depends at which level you compete. I can't really take down enough to prevent Ottos from getting to Fortress. If they reach Age3 while i'm still pressuring him, his Hussars Spahis MM crashes everything i have. Mayh3m is right when he says getting to Fortress acquires some skill, but constant pressure and ressource Management isn't that easy for me as well.

[TheRam]

Also one I'd like to suggest -
Aztec > Japan.
Coyotes + Mace shipments (Mace DECIMATE Ashi early colonial) = GG, and it's fast too.
Of course your troops are precious, and if you noob about their TC you'll die fast, but cut em off early and you get a HUGE advantage, and YES - Japan is succeptable to rushing.
+ Puma shipment (or starter gold + some gathered food, if you got the right map) = Down with outlying shrines whilst you're doing this.
Only way I can successfully beat Choco in this matchup is via use of Yumi + an eco intensive Nag spam - have to have those Nags downing Maces as they get shipped, but attack dance Coyos still hurt these so drat much.

[Kaiser_von_Nuben]

I think Otto is a very strong natural counter to Russia. Abus wipes out strels and wimpy Russian muskets with ease, and Jannies have so many HP that they can muscle past early strelets. In FF wars, Otto Spahi and mamelukes butcher all Russian infantry. Plus, Otto will always age ahead of Russia, and they can pummel you with 10 jans before you can even ship 13 strelets. And if you ship cossacks, the jans pwn them as soon as they exit the BH. If it's a water map, Ottos have an even bigger advatage. I think this match generally goes to Otto.

Aztec is also a natural counter to Russia. Try stopping that guardian/19 mace/coyote/6 spear rush with strelets and 9 cossacks... it is REALLY hard with at most 17 vils in your econ (and building 120 HP muskets with 18 attack instead of 23 is like sentencing them to death v. maces). Aztec does very well against Germans, too, but I find it a little easier to stop them with uhlans, doppels and xbows. But if the spears snag even 3 horses, it can be GG.

[danno527]

Surprisingly enough i find that Russia is a good civ vs Japan. Russia is the only civ i can beet japan with easily.
France does very well vs aztecs for me. I usualy go musket and hussar and that will take care of the usual mace and werewolves (also known as Coyote runners)
my two cents,
out,
danno

[I__CHAOS__I]

[quote=""36drew""]http://agesanctuary.com/index.php?porta ... pic=113682[/quote]

doesn't prove anything those kind of discussions... I've read hundreds of them and it rarely helps. The only one really saying otto can't win is doppelsoldner, who I think is some biased otto freak and no matter what the discussion is about, he'll always say that otto sucks (in one way or another). I once had an arguement with him where he claimed I could never get 20 jans out under 6 min on a normal map :roll: shows how much he really knows... I had em out at 5.42.

This match-up is really about picking the right strat and being careful with the few key-shipments (both as otto and russia) like spahi's, manchu etc...

[Kaiser_von_Nuben]

[quote=""danno527""]Surprisingly enough i find that Russia is a good civ vs Japan. Russia is the only civ i can beet japan with easily.
France does very well vs aztecs for me. I usualy go musket and hussar and that will take care of the usual mace and werewolves (also known as Coyote runners)
my two cents,
out,
danno[/quote]

I agree with you. If you can pressure Japan really early by shooting some villies and getting a decent infantry mass, you can choke him to death. You just have to pray he doesn't get clubs and nagis... those murder Russia.

[huGGy]

[quote=""Kaiser_von_Nuben""][quote=""danno527""]Surprisingly enough i find that Russia is a good civ vs Japan. Russia is the only civ i can beet japan with easily.
France does very well vs aztecs for me. I usualy go musket and hussar and that will take care of the usual mace and werewolves (also known as Coyote runners)
my two cents,
out,
danno[/quote]

I agree with you. If you can pressure Japan really early by shooting some villies and getting a decent infantry mass, you can choke him to death. You just have to pray he doesn't get clubs and nagis... those murder Russia.[/quote]

I had trouble vs Japan with Russia lol. But it depends. Facing Players of PR25- it's an easy win, cause you just can pressure him to death. Good japan players can counter the early attack pretty easy with a stable and consulate.

On the other hand i finally like to face aztecs as russia. They key is to start with a stable and add a BH with the 400 wood from age up. When you have 14 Cossacks start raiding him to death. On maps like Bayou its harder, cause you can't really go anywhere. (Age with 17 Settlers btw. You need the eco to keep building cossacks while adding some strelets).

[Kaiser_von_Nuben]

[quote=""HuggyPierre""][quote=""Kaiser_von_Nuben""][quote=""danno527""]Surprisingly enough i find that Russia is a good civ vs Japan. Russia is the only civ i can beet japan with easily.
France does very well vs aztecs for me. I usualy go musket and hussar and that will take care of the usual mace and werewolves (also known as Coyote runners)
my two cents,
out,
danno[/quote]

I agree with you. If you can pressure Japan really early by shooting some villies and getting a decent infantry mass, you can choke him to death. You just have to pray he doesn't get clubs and nagis... those murder Russia.[/quote]

I had trouble vs Japan with Russia lol. But it depends. Facing Players of PR25- it's an easy win, cause you just can pressure him to death. Good japan players can counter the early attack pretty easy with a stable and consulate.

On the other hand i finally like to face aztecs as russia. They key is to start with a stable and add a BH with the 400 wood from age up. When you have 14 Cossacks start raiding him to death. On maps like Bayou its harder, cause you can't really go anywhere. (Age with 17 Settlers btw. You need the eco to keep building cossacks while adding some strelets).[/quote]

I remember seeing a great rec where a Russian fended off the Aztecs with an early stable and strelets. Then he took the sea with 3 docks and absolutely crushed him with cossacks, muskets and cannons. That was fun to watch... but he had to fight for dear life in the first 10 minutes.

[Sporting_Lisbon]

(Age with 17 Settlers btw. You need the eco to keep building cossacks while adding some strelets).

Aren't you dead if he comes up with a quick rush?

[huGGy]

[quote=""Sporting_Lisbon""]

(Age with 17 Settlers btw. You need the eco to keep building cossacks while adding some strelets).

Aren't you dead if he comes up with a quick rush?[/quote]

Again, i only can speak about the 1.Lieut - Major Level:

I think it depends on the map. On maps like yellow river you have to age with 14 settlers, cause you nearly have 800 food when they pop out. On some other maps 17 vills are better, cause you ain't gonna lose much time. I think it's a matter of playstyle. I just like the 17 Vill age up. Sure it's slower and a really fast rush may beat you, but in most games you won't be rushed hard, because russian military shipments arent that bad and these 3 Vills allow you to spam Military without any pause. I think 14 Vills Age up is only worth it if you go for a early Musket push.

[danno527]

Kaiser_von_Nuben wrote:
danno527 wrote:
Surprisingly enough i find that Russia is a good civ vs Japan. Russia is the only civ i can beet japan with easily.
France does very well vs aztecs for me. I usualy go musket and hussar and that will take care of the usual mace and werewolves (also known as Coyote runners)
my two cents,
out,
danno

I agree with you. If you can pressure Japan really early by shooting some villies and getting a decent infantry mass, you can choke him to death. You just have to pray he doesn't get clubs and nagis... those murder Russia.

I had trouble vs Japan with Russia lol. But it depends. Facing Players of PR25- it's an easy win, cause you just can pressure him to death. Good japan players can counter the early attack pretty easy with a stable and consulate.

I don't 100% agree with you here. I a pr24 and so i mostly play pr 21 to 30. I usually scout in my games :idea: . If i see a stable i dont go cossack and strelets, i go heavy on the muskets with a few strelets thrown in. I will have my 5 cossacks hanging back for the inevitable 5 yumi shipment. i have beaten a few japanese majors as russia even when they go Nags and clubbing savages.
I totaly agree about 17 vills for age up though. almost always the better choice.
out ,
danno

[dragonshinobi]

have to love the spahi ff

the +6s go every where

seriously though yes if they ff it will be tough for u, if not, they are dead meat.

try harass the food vills, it helps to slow them down + they might not be able to send it.

if they get spahi + malamukes out though, ur dead

[Heyco]

[quote=""Sporting_Lisbon""]

(Age with 17 Settlers btw. You need the eco to keep building cossacks while adding some strelets).

Aren't you dead if he comes up with a quick rush?[/quote]

Yeah, think so. 17 vills is very slow... I think you don't need that. If you can boom a little bit you won't have any problems with your eco. Russian vills are produced faster. Imo 14 vills are fine. But depends also on the map... ops:

[Tubruk]

[quote=""Heyco""][quote=""Sporting_Lisbon""]

(Age with 17 Settlers btw. You need the eco to keep building cossacks while adding some strelets).

Aren't you dead if he comes up with a quick rush?[/quote]

Yeah, think so. 17 vills is very slow... I think you don't need that. If you can boom a little bit you won't have any problems with your eco. Russian vills are produced faster. Imo 14 vills are fine. But depends also on the map... ops:[/quote]

yeah aging up with 17 vils as russia is like aging with 19.5 vils, no civ should age with more than 17-18 imo its just too slow, and if russia age with 14 vils its = 16.5 nearly the equivalent as Germany's 17 so its not bad. +you can get a bigger mass earlier, anyway so why waste your advantage ageing with 17 vils. and the 52 seconds your saving off your age up time can be used to harass your enemy and keep his vils off of hunts.

[Heyco]

[quote=""Tubruk""][quote=""Heyco""][quote=""Sporting_Lisbon""]

(Age with 17 Settlers btw. You need the eco to keep building cossacks while adding some strelets).

Aren't you dead if he comes up with a quick rush?[/quote]

Yeah, think so. 17 vills is very slow... I think you don't need that. If you can boom a little bit you won't have any problems with your eco. Russian vills are produced faster. Imo 14 vills are fine. But depends also on the map... ops:[/quote]

yeah aging up with 17 vils as russia is like aging with 19.5 vils, no civ should age with more than 17-18 imo its just too slow, and if russia age with 14 vils its = 16.5 nearly the equivalent as Germany's 17 so its not bad. +you can get a bigger mass earlier, anyway so why waste your advantage ageing with 17 vils. and the 52 seconds your saving off your age up time can be used to harass your enemy and keep his vils off of hunts.[/quote]

Totally agree.