The Most Successful Natives

[Kaiser_von_Nuben]

Hello everybody. You know me by now: I take keen interests in things and want explanations for them. Today, I asked myself: "What is the best TWC civ and why?" Personally, I think they are all good--I find good Sioux players (ahem, Tatl) virtually uncrackable with my preferred Northern European civs (Germans/British/Dutch). But according to Age Community, it's the Aztecs who take the cake.

Statistically, the Aztecs get the most play (6.39%) and have the highest win pct (53.15%). Can anyone hypothesize why the Aztecs are so successful? I have a few ideas: awesome rush abilities; fast age-up in Age 2; superior Age 2 military shipments; double XP for treasure gathering; coyote runners ('nuff said); 45-siege pikemen; high ROF, cheap skirms (maces); insta-firepit with super priests available for shipment; fertility/war dance for later game. Aztecs have a formidable early game.

What other factors contribute to Aztec success? I for one hate facing them with the Germans and the British. Even the Russians have trouble with them. I welcome all your input, observations and thoughts! :idea:

[Sporting_Lisbon]

Aztecs are the most broken native civ. In most situations they are ok, but they have that really annoying coyote/mace combo. Maces got a boost, coyos got a huge boost. As maces obliterate pikes and such coyos own the rest, the only counter for this (lol at counter) is spamming cav with RI to take out the maces. Yet, we're forgetting that the amazing warrior priest boom exists and is faster than ever which means that under 10 mins dear aztecs can have their war dance breaking through every combat you think you could have won hadn't it been for the firepit! Now let's add up that aztecs have 9+10 maces card and 6 pumas, which make them good either at rushing or vs rushes, and you got a successful civ right there :p

Sorry for the big paragraph, I don't like reading them either

[Tatltael]

atm i despise the aztecs, they have a monstrous rush fueled by milit. shipments, and oh yeah, they'll age faster than you. hm

if that fails rush for some reason, they'll just play with warpriest dance and :[


the only way to win v. aztec as sioux is bowrider/ cetan / AR. not an easy combo to achieve early game :/

[I__CHAOS__I]

ourk would say: just raid them with axe riders

[Sporting_Lisbon]

I already had trouble on beating aztec as sioux in 1.00 and twc, I'm not gonna try to imagine it right now Perhaps that crazy 8 vill aging strat or sth

[Kaiser_von_Nuben]

My German prescription is to mass some uhlans, send 9 xbow to pick off pumas, hold them back with MM if needed, then send doppels to carve up the coyotes. Pikes are just not good enough against mass coyotes I find... they do much less damage to LI than they do to cav. Doppels, on the other hand, do about 45 damage plus 2 area to those nasty runners. And uhlans, of course, can pwn them pretty well en masse with the high base attack. As long as I can mow down his maces with uhlans, I can usually manage things... but the trick is GETTING at the maces. Easier said than done against good micro. And I don't even think about doppels without clearing away the maces.

[IndyBrit]

Aztecs are way better than Japan. Aztecs kill me quickly, while Japan lets me linger in freakish misery until the shrine spam overwhelms me.

[36drew]

The problem is that nothing seems to counter coyotes. Damn abstract whatever the heck they are.

[Sun_Tzu1]

Funny. Last patch folk kept going on and on about how bad Coyotes were. You guys remember that?

[Nighthawk22]

I've recently taken a liking to the Aztecs. I usually make a mace/coyote combo for the most part. How do the Aztecs go about fire pit booming? Production dance for vils?

[GeneralMichael]

Yeah pretty much heavy infantry and calv are the only thing that can stand up to coyote runners but the hi get killed by maces and calv usually are 2 pop so they can usually be out numbered by coyotes and even 1 on 1 i find that coyote runners can withstand calv pretty well. Also nighthawk with the fire pit once i hit age 3 with the aztecs the way i go about booming is to start doing the dance to get what i need to have the max 10 warrior priests. Then if I have a good enough eco production dance lets me pop out a vill about every 1 or 2 seconds. Other wise i can get 10xp per second with that which in 40 min treaty games lets me get to use almost all the cards before the treaty is over unlike most civs.

[Nighthawk22]

alright thanks Michael

[Kaiser_von_Nuben]

[quote=""GeneralMichael""]Yeah pretty much heavy infantry and calv are the only thing that can stand up to coyote runners but the hi get killed by maces and calv usually are 2 pop so they can usually be out numbered by coyotes and even 1 on 1 i find that coyote runners can withstand calv pretty well. Also nighthawk with the fire pit once i hit age 3 with the aztecs the way i go about booming is to start doing the dance to get what i need to have the max 10 warrior priests. Then if I have a good enough eco production dance lets me pop out a vill about every 1 or 2 seconds. Other wise i can get 10xp per second with that which in 40 min treaty games lets me get to use almost all the cards before the treaty is over unlike most civs.[/quote]

Good point about coyote pop value. Cav can beat them, but they are significantly more expensive and they tend to house you in the process with multiple pop space. Coyotes, by contrast, are pretty darn cheap and put no strain on the housing situation. Maybe the Russians have a slight edge with 1-pop space Cossacks?

En Masse, coyotes with 18 hand damage can maul cav pretty well. When you consider that cav has no hand resistance, 10 coyotes can do some serious damage to 5 horses. I know all too well that early 190 HP uhlans go down disturbingly fast to almost everyone, including coyotes. The only way to win is to overwhelm them with numbers, but it's silly to talk about outmassing Aztecs early; with all those cards, they are the masters of early mass. Oh, let's not forget maybe some converted grizzly bears, samurai or renegados thrown in for good measure :neutral:

[LaZy]

[quote=""Kaiser_von_Nuben""]
What other factors contribute to Aztec success? [/quote]

1) aztec is just as formidable ( dont think ive ever used this word b4 ) in 1v1 as it is Uber in team games

2) WATER. they rock n roll on the H20.

1+2) team schooners. although 4 some reason a lot dont play this awesome card.

3) Stealth! not just with prowlers. coyotes get em also. Thats just pathetic.

4) not only do they get early game Op unit (aka coyotes) but they get an absurdly pathetically OP unit for free every 9 secs in age IV (aka Night, Skull Night).

Im sure there r alot of other ways Aztecs are regarded as broken! I just cant remember them atm

out

[Kaiser_von_Nuben]

[quote=""LaZy""][quote=""Kaiser_von_Nuben""]
What other factors contribute to Aztec success? [/quote]

1) aztec is just as formidable ( dont think ive ever used this word b4 ) in 1v1 as it is Uber in team games

2) WATER. they rock n roll on the H20.

1+2) team schooners. although 4 some reason a lot dont play this awesome card.

3) Stealth! not just with prowlers. coyotes get em also. Thats just pathetic.

4) not only do they get early game Op unit (aka coyotes) but they get an absurdly pathetically OP unit for free every 9 secs in age IV (aka Night, Skull Night).

Im sure there r alot of other ways Aztecs are regarded as broken! I just cant remember them atm

out[/quote]

Do you think perhaps in their quest to "balance" the fact that TWC civs don't have artillery, ES might have gone overboard on some native abilities and cards? Great points about the water boom... and how about the water dance? Admiral Nelson would turn over in his grave to see 25 canoes destroying a British frigate fleet, as often happens