New patch?

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Sporting_Lisbon
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Re: New patch?

Post by Sporting_Lisbon »

Soccerman771 wrote:
There's an easy way to 'patch' all this. Fix the PR system. Give less and less point for the civs that have the higher win percentages. People chase PR like it's some kind of gold mine at the end of the rainbow. Imagine if you enter a 1v1 spain vs japan and you're japan and you stand to lose .25 full pr and only gain .0003 if you win. Granted, you'd still have to take into account rank and HC level and all that jazz, but it'd solve the problem.

That's the best idea I've heard from anyone in a while.

Granted the civ still needs some serious nerfing either way because Japan can be even worse in team games since it has more time to work with. However, your exactly right with the PR thing.


NO, please no. If japanese dudes my rank can beat me without breaking a sweat will not increase rank that means I'll ALWAYS face the same japanese dudes over and over again. If it went faster, I'd start facing either guys who are not overrated or jap lamers that suck. The second option looks better.

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Re: New patch?

Post by Soccerman771 »

[quote=""dragonshinobi""]so against a dutch player it would be better to send the 3 settler wagons? against ottoman 9 xbows?[/quote]

Yes, generally speaking. Against the otto, keep the 2 uhlans running around looking for rogue vils hunting. 2-3 vils is a huge loss for an otto, and if he's going for ATP or something like that, get to an TP that hasn't been built and cut down his explorer if you can.

For dutch, do the x-bow contain strat. Only 'problem' is if he goes all hussars, and for that he needs that valuable food for banks. If you see him do that, then the 3 sw + 2 sw usually allows you to out-boom them. The key is to keep them off resources and in their base and literally choke them to gg.

One last 'tip' I can think of is if you are against India/Otto/Dutch where they don't require food to age, then don't age with a 17 vil pop unless you are suicidal. Your age II time is too slow and they will over-take you before you have a large enough force. Same goes for war chief civs where you are susceptible to the fast-age politician. You must scout very good in those games.
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I__CHAOS__I
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Re: New patch?

Post by I__CHAOS__I »

[quote=""Sporting_Lisbon""]
Soccerman771 wrote:
There's an easy way to 'patch' all this. Fix the PR system. Give less and less point for the civs that have the higher win percentages. People chase PR like it's some kind of gold mine at the end of the rainbow. Imagine if you enter a 1v1 spain vs japan and you're japan and you stand to lose .25 full pr and only gain .0003 if you win. Granted, you'd still have to take into account rank and HC level and all that jazz, but it'd solve the problem.

That's the best idea I've heard from anyone in a while.

Granted the civ still needs some serious nerfing either way because Japan can be even worse in team games since it has more time to work with. However, your exactly right with the PR thing.


NO, please no. If japanese dudes my rank can beat me without breaking a sweat will not increase rank that means I'll ALWAYS face the same japanese dudes over and over again. If it went faster, I'd start facing either guys who are not overrated or jap lamers that suck. The second option looks better.[/quote]

I def agree here
beating some overrated lamer feels good
maybe do the opposite: give em extra PR so they wont bother us anymore lol
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Re: New patch?

Post by Soccerman771 »

[quote=""Sporting_Lisbon""]
Soccerman771 wrote:
There's an easy way to 'patch' all this. Fix the PR system. Give less and less point for the civs that have the higher win percentages. People chase PR like it's some kind of gold mine at the end of the rainbow. Imagine if you enter a 1v1 spain vs japan and you're japan and you stand to lose .25 full pr and only gain .0003 if you win. Granted, you'd still have to take into account rank and HC level and all that jazz, but it'd solve the problem.

That's the best idea I've heard from anyone in a while.

Granted the civ still needs some serious nerfing either way because Japan can be even worse in team games since it has more time to work with. However, your exactly right with the PR thing.


NO, please no. If japanese dudes my rank can beat me without breaking a sweat will not increase rank that means I'll ALWAYS face the same japanese dudes over and over again. If it went faster, I'd start facing either guys who are not overrated or jap lamers that suck. The second option looks better.[/quote]

I respectfully disagree. If a civ has a high win percentage, and you only gain .0003 you need to play 3,333 games to gain 1 PR. That's 10 games a day for a year. You'd NEVER see japan, unless someone actually enjoyed playing them. This would need to be a statistically dynamic pr changing algorithm that way when the actual PR's balance, the statistical difference would be level. The second piece of the pie is that you would see every civ in QS and in team games as the actual balance would be better.

The math works. The reason it does is that civ's that get 33% of the play in TAD with 60% win rates would take forever to get PR. If you got no PR for "laming", it's not in your interest to play them..which leads to ES having a good interest for patching them.
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Re: New patch?

Post by Kaiser_von_Nuben »

I like the PR solution, but how do we determine which civs are the "winners?" Obviously we all badmouth Japan, but if you look on Age Community, it appears that Japan has a total Supremacy win pct. under 50%. By contrast, Russia has somewhere around 55% (the highest). So where would we look when we award less PR? I generally don't think of Russia as an OP civ in this patch, but if you look at the numbers, they are doing "the best."
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Re: New patch?

Post by Soccerman771 »

[quote=""Kaiser_von_Nuben""]I like the PR solution, but how do we determine which civs are the "winners?" Obviously we all badmouth Japan, but if you look on Age Community, it appears that Japan has a total Supremacy win pct. under 50%. By contrast, Russia has somewhere around 55% (the highest). So where would we look when we award less PR? I generally don't think of Russia as an OP civ in this patch, but if you look at the numbers, they are doing "the best."[/quote]

There are several variables. How many games do Japan win as the lower ranked person? You also would have to look at the win % by rank. Japan may have a 33% play with 48% win, but past the Capt level I'm sure the stats are different. I can look them up real quick..
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Re: New patch?

Post by Soccerman771 »

http://undefeat.com/EsoTools/PivotTable.aspx

for Japan
Ok, At the lance corp - Mst Serg level they have a 22% play and a 52.74% win rate. At the 2nd lt - Capt level they have a 19% play and 51.74% win rate. At the Major - Colonel level they 28.68% play and 58.58% win rate, a significant difference. At the Brig-Field Marsh level they are 25% play and 52.65% win rate.

India has a higher win rate at every level. 2-3 other civs have other win rates at every level except major - colonel
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Re: New patch?

Post by Kaiser_von_Nuben »

A jump from 51 to 58: That is a significant difference... over 58% is a very "winning" civ. That looks like a cool group of stats you found, Soccer. I will have to check that out!
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Re: New patch?

Post by kingchrisII »

i must say soccerman that the idea has its flaws, say im master sergeant now and played 3333 games and won em all and i gained just 1 PR, i mlikely to have improved about 3 pr in skill eeven though im japs if u get me!

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Re: New patch?

Post by Sporting_Lisbon »

The math works. The reason it does is that civ's that get 33% of the play in TAD with 60% win rates would take forever to get PR. If you got no PR for "laming", it's not in your interest to play them..which leads to ES having a good interest for patching them.
You didn't get my point. I'm pr 33 and I decide to go into qs to play with my ports. I find a Jap player pr 33 as well. He has a big, big advantage over me. Yet, as his pr doesn't go up nor my pr go down, that means I'll ALWAYS find him in qs because he's pr 33, the same as mine! Well it's true that I don't lose rate but I personally think that it is a waste of my time and I don't appreciate quick resign.
Last edited by Sporting_Lisbon on Thu Jul 17, 2008 2:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: New patch?

Post by Navarone_Guy »

[quote=""rambo098""]NERF THE JAPS NOW... AOE3 NEEDS A NEW PATCH SO BAD!!!

:evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:
im so pissed at ensemble studios... why don't they get it?

yummi archer : op
ashis muskets : op
naginata riders : op
the big shirine : op
shrine : op
explorers : op

:evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:[/quote]

Sigh... come on Rambo and Chaos. If you nerf every advantage they have, they'll become worthless like the Germans did. Nerf ashi and shrines, and that is just fine. A nerf about as big as their boost last patch (was quite small) will bring them down to average again.
Groovy.

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Re: New patch?

Post by Sporting_Lisbon »

All they need is Heavenly Kami and Toshogu Shrine boosting hunts, shrine with 1200 hp instead of 1600 hp. About ashis, I'd like to see -2 range but I dunno, they're weird to fix.

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Re: New patch?

Post by Soccerman771 »

[quote=""Sporting_Lisbon""]
The math works. The reason it does is that civ's that get 33% of the play in TAD with 60% win rates would take forever to get PR. If you got no PR for "laming", it's not in your interest to play them..which leads to ES having a good interest for patching them.
You didn't get my point. I'm pr 33 and I decide to go into qs to play with my ports. I find a Jap player pr 33 as well. He has a big, big advantage over me. Yet, as his pr doesn't go up nor my pr go down, that means I'll ALWAYS find him in qs because he's pr 33, the same as mine! Well it's true that I don't lose rate but I personally think that it is a waste of my time and I don't appreciate quick resign.[/quote]

You didn't get mine. If you always play him you're bound to win. You're PR will go up, but his will not. :)
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Re: New patch?

Post by Soccerman771 »

[quote=""kingchrisII""]i must say soccerman that the idea has its flaws, say im master sergeant now and played 3333 games and won em all and i gained just 1 PR, i mlikely to have improved about 3 pr in skill eeven though im japs if u get me![/quote]

Most ideas do have flaws.
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Re: New patch?

Post by Tatltael »

maybe consecutive wins deserve more PR gain?

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