Portugese FF/FI -- Discuss.

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36drew
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Portugese FF/FI -- Discuss.

Post by 36drew »

I'd like to hear some discussion about this. BO's, variants, pheasability, strat, etc.

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Re: Portugese FF/FI -- Discuss.

Post by HuggyPierre »

Gomezd often played a Ronin FF and it worked good. Don't know if it still works though. Can't really say something to that, but i thought i should throw this into the discussion.

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kingchrisII
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Re: Portugese FF/FI -- Discuss.

Post by kingchrisII »

tried the FF/FI many a time, infact the only start i use for ports, although i must thanks sporting for this

the way i do it: normal age 1, no card sent in age1 age with 400 wood politition
transition: on coin till 300 rest on food
age2: make vills from both tcs until you have the 1k coin then all on fod until 1.2k food.
age and do wat you want!

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Re: Portugese FF/FI -- Discuss.

Post by Navarone_Guy »

I'd say on a land map, FFing or FIing is the only truly feasible strat the Ports have. Mamelukes are OP and their booming capability with map control is very good.
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Sporting_Lisbon
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Re: Portugese FF/FI -- Discuss.

Post by Sporting_Lisbon »

You got two FIs, CM FI and fast FI.

CM FI is good vs civs which you need CM. Examples: makes sepoy die in 2 hits instead of 3, good vs India; most aztec units die in one hit; germans' xbow/pike die in 1 hit. It's also good when you're facing a civ that just won't leave you alone for that long and will attack you with a huge attack sooner or later, so you may also add Japan but for a different reason: you need everything you got to outspam Japan's attack. ( Vs Sioux it's good to kill clubs, vs Russia to kill strel/musk. China too. vs Otto kills jans faster too )

If you look a bit o_O to the fast FI just go CM FI cause it's safer. I just pointed out why it was good against the top civs, cause this are the ones you'll find most in qs. Also, remember that CM doesn't reduce the shots to kill vs: Musks (so its not so good to use vs Brit), Ashis&Yumis (but it's good because of the 15 mm), Tomas&Aennas (ship it if you're afraid of a hard rush, otherwise its ok np). Dutch is not worth it was well.

Ok, so the BO is:

1st card: CM, age with 500f poli, with 12 vills. Gather 300c in transition.

2nd card: 700c, queue 2-3 vills, gather everything. Get a vill queued asap when the other tc pops up.

TIP: Forget that TC for map control bs. 6500 hp tc with no vills inside will die to 10 musks and therefore it will ruin your FF (not to mention your FI).

Now, it's for you to decide. 6 caças or fast up. 6 caças if he has an army to siege you, or if you simply wanna raid. If he's gonna leave you alone for a while, thrust in the 6 caças/6 goon card + CM and go fast up.

Now you're gonna use this 3rd tc for map control. Send it to the next hunt. You'll probably lose it, but it's ok, cause it buys you around 1-2 mins and LOS to know what the hell the other dude is thinking (let's not forget everyone underestimates ports).

3rd card: 1000c. Gather 200c. If you picked 6 caça poli and you think you can gather the food soon, while keeping vill production, then good. If you picked fast up, or it's getting too long to reach 2000f with producing a few vills, pick 1000f as 4th card. You should age at around 25-28~ vills, and ALWAYS pick 1000c poli no matter what. If in trouble, get a rax and get some caças to snipe out any sieging HI.

Tadaa, you're in industrial. Get the tc near your second one, to form more or less a triangle and defend. You're opponent is already wt f, and he's probably gonna attack you. Get 6 caça + 6 goons and be sure that your explorer is around. As you get 1000c, and you should have kept vills in food you can pop out mm if he comes by. Don't be afraid to get 30 mm in the screen if that's what is needed.

You lost: well, either you took too long, or either you were attacked strong and heavy as soon as you reached industrial and didn't have the res, cause rushes are easy to fence back if you kept your tcs more or less close.

You survived until now: great! Get a stable up and get some goons. Keep vill production and get those factories up. Research Mass Production asap and get hcs out. Goon/Hc = GG. Get elmetis for that cherry on the top of the cake.


I'll post the fast fast industrial (the difference is that it doesn't include CM) later as I gotta go for lunch now. I hope I helped :)

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36drew
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Re: Portugese FF/FI -- Discuss.

Post by 36drew »

Thx Bro! Thats a pretty good break down. The information about CM not mattering for Brits, etc was very useful.

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Re: Portugese FF/FI -- Discuss.

Post by I__CHAOS__I »

I saw some rec of sporting doing that FI and the build order is really nice.
the 12vil / 500f age up is what makes it possible imo.
The use of the 3rd TC as decoy is well thought of, placing it too close to the other 2 kinda forces your opponent to be in your eco, which u dont want
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Re: Portugese FF/FI -- Discuss.

Post by Am3ricanCa3sar »

Getting to industrial is what ports are all about IMO. Whether you get there fast or slow is up to what your oppenent is capable of (civ/strat), and what you have to do to get there (very map dependant).

A naked ff is really not that good against many civs that can come hard and fast, and above pr 30 it is really not that viable unless your sure what your oppenent is doing and even then it can tend to hurt your eco. it costs alot to keep three tc going and build an army with whats left, or even to fund CM and keep constant vill production.

I have found that a semi ff, while building a combo of either muskets and/or hussars (depending on you oppenent), backed up by CM, and getting market upgrades, can better get you through colonial on your way to fortress, and most times if you also have the 600f card you can slingshot fortress striaght to industrial around 14 min mark. Take the 1000 gold shipment on your way to industrial, age up with the 1000g, mercantilism, 3 shipments on thier way.

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Sporting_Lisbon
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Re: Portugese FF/FI -- Discuss.

Post by Sporting_Lisbon »

have found that a semi ff, while building a combo of either muskets and/or hussars (depending on you oppenent), backed up by CM, and getting market upgrades, can better get you through colonial on your way to fortress, and most times if you also have the 600f card you can slingshot fortress striaght to industrial around 14 min mark.
That is a different manner of seeing it, but my FI hits at 10 min :p Semi ff doesn't work because port colo is worthless.

Check some of my recs if you want:

Port FI vs agra rush
http://www.aoe3clan.com/index.php?name= ... pic&t=1008

Vs sioux and aztec
http://www.aoe3clan.com/index.php?name= ... pic&t=1262

10 min port fi vs dutch
http://www.aoe3clan.com/index.php?name= ... pic&t=1273

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ruminator
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Re: Portugese FF/FI -- Discuss.

Post by ruminator »

If you have "balls of steel" then Sporting's strat is the way to go!!

I just can't seem to cope with any sustained colonial rush though - that's the problem with Ports, you need to be a good player as they don't cope well with any mistakes.
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luukje
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Re: Portugese FF/FI -- Discuss.

Post by luukje »

Well Ports FF/FI (or any other defensive FI/FF) were pretty fine strats to counter rushes before 1.01. But with a lot of players going for agressive age 2 play but not all out rush (TWC and TAD civs being much more suited for this), I find it much harder to counter with Ports/dutch FF/FI. The pressure is much more sustained and CM cant keep on saving you, in the end they will just overrun you once they have massed enough military or you run out of resources near your defensive position.

It's still viable, but not like it used to be.

It looks good on paper, and when you pull it off, its fun. But you'll loose 2 for every game won.

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