Next N3O Tournament

[Soccerman771]

Not to continue the thread hi-jack (well, ok it is), but the problem w/"balance" is that to have a truely balanced game every civ would have to be identical. That would eliminate most of the spunk that the game has. People have different playing styles and each of the civ's are unique to that and helps to get diversity in the game.

BTW, how does Germany beat IRO? I got spanked in a 1v1 last night. I even aged up w/1 less vil and herded. The 9 x-bows shipment did NOTHING. Against a well executed IRO rush, I don't think Ger can do anything...

[Sporting_Lisbon]

Check my games vs kiljardi where he, as germans, twists iro as if playing with a toy. You can't keep up with xbow spam and free uhlans.

[Soccerman771]

I'll check em out Sporting. Thanks. Then again, I'm not 1/2 as good as Kiljardi...

[luukje]

just watched a game where flooky, the best german player, was completely owned by nature phoenix with aztec
playing skill still decides 95% of the games

he didnt make mistakes, stole 2 big treasures from NP, did a standard german strat vs aztec warpriest boom and was completely owned
i didnt see mistakes, is was just pure ownage

[Soccerman771]

@ topic - when does the poll close and is someone gonna host/organize the tourney?

[Navarone_Guy]

The problem with Germans is that despite their boosts (mostly to uhlans) they still die miserably to any musket-unit rush, such as sepoys, tomas, or ashi. Xbows just don't have the multipliers to deal with them. That's why I pretty much refuse to QS with civs lacking skirms in age 2.

[Soccerman771]

[quote=""Navarone_Guy""]The problem with Germans is that despite their boosts (mostly to uhlans) they still die miserably to any musket-unit rush, such as sepoys, tomas, or ashi. Xbows just don't have the multipliers to deal with them. That's why I pretty much refuse to QS with civs lacking skirms in age 2.[/quote]

It was a friendly game and tbh, I've beaten an India guy in 1v1 w/ pure x-bow spam and uhlan raiding. I didn't think the matchup was in my favor from the start. He got some good treasures and aged about 30 seconds before me. It was enough as I couldn't get my shipment or pikes our fast enough wasn't enough to even stop 4 kanyas as he was able to keep me in my TC. I've never been able to consistently beat the TWC civs. I only played TWC about 2 weeks before I got TAD. I always uncheck the "allow TWC civs" in QS.

[Sporting_Lisbon]

Xbows are good not because they're good vs HI but because they're cheap, it's a trouble only with Sepoys and Ashis. Sepoys are a problem because their big price is neutralized by indian auto-boom eco and Ashis are problem because you can't run away when you're outnumbered and because jap eco allows them to spam ashis as if they were as cheap as regular musks.

Brit upgraded musks can be a problem for germans but I think germans has advantage over brits and this issue isn't decisive.


Btw Nav germans are doubtlessly a top civ o_O

[Navarone_Guy]

I know they're undoubtedly a top civ, I'm just saying that xbows (and lbows) need a huge fix across the board, something like -2 or -3 more attack and x2 to heavy inf.

[kingchrisII]

i voted 2v2 tourney (back on topic)

[Sporting_Lisbon]

I'm just saying that xbows (and lbows) need a huge fix across the board, something like -2 or -3 more attack and x2 to heavy inf.

Well actually I might disagree, xbows are supposed to be like that. HI should get a nerf vs RI the same way RI got a nerf vs cav, 0.75x would win the day (i hope).

No, we ain't going back on topic, balance issues ftw chris :p

[kingchrisII]

ok, sure thing sporting

[luukje]

0.75 is a pretty bad nerf for the musk heavy civs.
take otto, they are pretty dead allready, this would make them even worse
considering were not going to get 5 more patches or so, I would say, nice idea but to late.
just adjust a little on the top civs (india + japan), and make the weaker ones a little stronger.

[Navarone_Guy]

You can always boost Ottos in some other way, Luukje. I like your idea, Sporting, although there's no reason xbows shouldn't fit into the counter system, especially when their civs have no alternatives.

[Sporting_Lisbon]

Xbows are supposed to soft counter HI the same way musks soft counter cav at range. I think xbows should be a different unit from skirmishers and the problem doesn't reside in xbows being too bad vs musk units but musk units being too good vs xbows.

Still, I think this change brings up way too much mess and this musk vs xbow issue could be solved with direct nerfs to civs. Atm the civs that abuse this most are India and Japan, I don't like brit's upped musks much either but that could be just me.

Otto is weak enough to not make a jan spam efficient vs xbow spam and Spain, Port, France and Russia don't exactly win games by spamming musks.