N3O Age Of Empires and Starcraft 2 Clan

yeah aging up with 17 vils as russia is like aging with 19.5 vils, no civ should age with more than 17-18 imo its just too slow, and if russia age with 14 vils its = 16.5 nearly the equivalent as Germany's 17 so its not bad. +you can get a bigger mass earlier, anyway so why waste your advantage ageing with 17 vils. and the 52 seconds your saving off your age up time can be used to harass your enemy and keep his vils off of hunts.

Never say never. There are many situations that 17 vills is way better. First off it doesnt costs your age up time 52 seconds. It only adds 25 to 35 seconds because you will never have 800 food the instant you pop out 14 vills. Secondly you dont start massing and army any later than you opponent becaseu you can build a blockhouse in the first age. You might start building a military 10 seconds later than other civs.

I generally do 14 vills vs civs that are vulnerable very early colonial in an attempt to contain them right away.ie brits, dutch. I alson do 14 vs civs with a very strong and fast rush. ie aztevs and iroquis and india. I do 17 vs civs that need to be overwhelmed with masses but can beat of an early rush easily. ie germany, france.
Trust me ive played probaly 100+ games with russia and my russian win % is around 59% the best of all my civs.
my 2 cents
out

14 or 17, I still say Russia is dead in the water aginast 12 uhlans at 6:30 :-P

Not with 5-9 cossacks and 5-10 musks at that time

[quote=""Crazy""]Not with 5-9 cossacks and 5-10 musks at that time [/quote] lol What do you think is better: French with cav vs Russia or Germans with cav vs Russia?

Germans are French on steroids, that question isn't exactly needed :p

I'd say Germans. Hussars are good, but they don't train as fast as uhlans and with all those free ones coming in with base 37 damage, they can really maul Russia in the early minutes. If Russia had a musket shipment it might make life easier, but 5 uhlans beat 5 cossacks, and the initial 5 musket batch alone can't cut the mustard against 7, 10 or 12 uhlans. It's only after Russia gets 10-15 muskets that the uhlans have trouble... but that's when you ship 9 xbows!

In Russia's defense, quickness is all. If you can get 5 cossacks and 5 muskets out ASAP, with 4 cossacks to follow, you can stop the uhlans. But that's assuming the uhlans haven't killed some food gatherers in the meantime. I used to hate it when that happened. With only 14 vils for the critical shipment push (9 cossacks, 13-23 strels, 5-10 muskets), losing even 2 vils is painful. Because then you face a cruel dilemma: Spend 270 precious food on replacement vils, or 375 on strels or 281 on muskets. That's why every Russian needs a 700 food card, and probably a 600 food card, too.

i like aging with 14 vills, but 11 works against ottos, french, dutch and other civs

[quote=""danno527""]

yeah aging up with 17 vils as russia is like aging with 19.5 vils, no civ should age with more than 17-18 imo its just too slow, and if russia age with 14 vils its = 16.5 nearly the equivalent as Germany's 17 so its not bad. +you can get a bigger mass earlier, anyway so why waste your advantage ageing with 17 vils. and the 52 seconds your saving off your age up time can be used to harass your enemy and keep his vils off of hunts.

Never say never. There are many situations that 17 vills is way better. First off it doesnt costs your age up time 52 seconds. It only adds 25 to 35 seconds because you will never have 800 food the instant you pop out 14 vills. Secondly you dont start massing and army any later than you opponent becaseu you can build a blockhouse in the first age. You might start building a military 10 seconds later than other civs.

I generally do 14 vills vs civs that are vulnerable very early colonial in an attempt to contain them right away.ie brits, dutch. I alson do 14 vs civs with a very strong and fast rush. ie aztevs and iroquis and india. I do 17 vs civs that need to be overwhelmed with masses but can beat of an early rush easily. ie germany, france.
Trust me ive played probaly 100+ games with russia and my russian win % is around 59% the best of all my civs.
my 2 cents
out[/quote]

25-35 seconds?
are you taking into account that it takes roughly 24 seconds to gather the food needed to train the vils aswell as the 52 seconds train time?

[quote=""Tubruk""][quote=""danno527""]

yeah aging up with 17 vils as russia is like aging with 19.5 vils, no civ should age with more than 17-18 imo its just too slow, and if russia age with 14 vils its = 16.5 nearly the equivalent as Germany's 17 so its not bad. +you can get a bigger mass earlier, anyway so why waste your advantage ageing with 17 vils. and the 52 seconds your saving off your age up time can be used to harass your enemy and keep his vils off of hunts.

Never say never. There are many situations that 17 vills is way better. First off it doesnt costs your age up time 52 seconds. It only adds 25 to 35 seconds because you will never have 800 food the instant you pop out 14 vills. Secondly you dont start massing and army any later than you opponent becaseu you can build a blockhouse in the first age. You might start building a military 10 seconds later than other civs.

I generally do 14 vills vs civs that are vulnerable very early colonial in an attempt to contain them right away.ie brits, dutch. I alson do 14 vs civs with a very strong and fast rush. ie aztevs and iroquis and india. I do 17 vs civs that need to be overwhelmed with masses but can beat of an early rush easily. ie germany, france.
Trust me ive played probaly 100+ games with russia and my russian win % is around 59% the best of all my civs.
my 2 cents
out[/quote]

25-35 seconds?
are you taking into account that it takes roughly 24 seconds to gather the food needed to train the vils aswell as the 52 seconds train time?[/quote]

that doesnt matter^^
What he means is: with 17 vils you have no idle TC time, with 14 you do (can easily be 25 sec on bad hunt maps etc)

25-35 seconds?
are you taking into account that it takes roughly 24 seconds to gather the food needed to train the vils aswell as the 52 seconds train time?

nope. 14 vills plus 20 to 30 seconds idle tc time(depends on map) puts you to age II about 4:20 to4:30. Instead of wasting TC time you can build another batch 52 minus 20 or 30 =22 or 32 seconds longer to age up so around 5:00. You also need to take into account that you can start producing strelets or muskets right away becasue of the age one blockhouse so you dont really start producing later than any euro or asian civ.

edited out BS pragraph ::/

[quote=""danno527""]Here is a 17 vil age up at 4:43 probably one of my fastest.[/quote]

that's not possible imho.
you start with 5 vils, need approx 10 sec to queue that first batch and each batch takes 52 sec.
4 batches = 208 sec + 10 sec + 90 sec age up time = 308 sec = 5 min 8 sec
unless you free up 3 captured vils or got 3 from an aztec ally 5'08" is your best time.

My experience has been that Russia's "villie batches" are a mixed blessing. Yes, they work out to being cheaper per head (90 resources v. 100 for everyone else except evil Otto). But you need to come up with 270 to even begin to train them. This can lead to serious idle TC time. Early game, that can really hurt. And when you have massive military food expenditures to factor in, I've found it to be a real tight-rope. At least with other civs you can spend militarily in the early minutes knowing you have some vil shipments to pick up the slack. Not so with Russia.

Of course, once food isn't a big issue later in the game, the 270 price is a real bargain, especially when you have multiple TCs simultaneously unleashing trios of Slavic workers.

My 2 cents about 14 v. 17: I played about 100 rated games (lots of 1v1) with Russia during my early days in AOE. I always aged with 14. My strength was in a quick attack, and if I aged at 5:08, there was no way to catch my opponent relatively unprepared. Still, I have seen lots of high level recs where people age with 17 (Crusiminator comes to mind as a good Russian player) against certain boom civs. I can see both perspectives. I just feel uncomfortable aging after 4:45, especially against a civ like the Aztecs, which eat Russians for lunch (I hate that match almost as much as Germans v. Aztecs... I think Russians have it worse).

ok i take back what i said i forgot about the fishing boats i had in that game. you are right Chaos 5:05 is the earliest you can age. is there a foot in mouth emoticon.. ops:

[quote=""danno527""]ok i take back what i said i forgot about the fishing boats i had in that game. you are right Chaos 5:05 is the earliest you can age. is there a foot in mouth emoticon.. ops:[/quote]
lol we all make mistakes like my extremely rough mathematical equation lol i suppose 17 vils is a logical BO but i feel "safer" and more reassured when i age with 14, so if all goes to plan i control the game e.g. i choose when to fight etc. and if the cossacks are free i choose when he gathers food , unless he/she is germany, sioux, or any native civ tbh. Grr i love natives except i find aztecs a little awkward to play tbh, even though they are supossedly OP