N3O Age Of Empires and Starcraft 2 Clan

I like both, some may find AOE to be more fun but definately not better. The game lacks a lot of things from which balance, civ diversity and action packed gameplay.

Also I prefer this 3 race system (would be cool if they added more though) over the sh!tload-of-races-system AOE uses where the only difference between these civs is being able to build 1 or 2 units most other civs cannot, or sending 5 musketeers instead of 3 villagers.

Starcraft 2 however may have fewer races, but all units are different and none of them look-alike units the other 2 races have, not to mention that they handle differently and require different gameplay / tactics.

Imo once Blizzard patches the social system to actually allow clanplay this will definately be the way better game.

thank you lordandcount this thread is something i have been waiting for. expect a huge reply by me, also refuting some of jeroms arguments^^ (sorry jero)

[quote=""Aaryn_GenD""]thank you lordandcount this thread is something i have been waiting for. expect a huge reply by me, also refuting some of jeroms arguments^^ (sorry jero)[/quote]
Haha, I actually think a big part of those arguments are a bit opinion based, so you can for example dislike micro, and also if I have said wrong things, go ahead and make up for my mistakes

SC for me, its just a lot more diverse, in aoe each civ had about 2 ways which they would always be played and there were beat all build orders (make ashigarus, type gg), hell I could FF against any civ on any map even against a fast toma rush.

The terrain is also a big plus for me, you really need to think about where you engage your opponent and how you position your army is far more critical, high ground advantage etc it just adds a a tactical layer that aoe sorely missed.

Lastly correct army compositions really matter, unlike aoe were you could mass LI with a meatshield and that could beat about anything I like how in SCII any given game can be drastically different from the others.

Having said all that aoe still has better economy dynamics, its more rewarding properly distributing your vills instead of putting 3 drones on gas and rest on minerals, I still feel like it had better macro dynamics, batch building is great and forces you to manage your economy properly to be able to train your army the most efficient way, cannons blasting away a bunch of skirms is much more satisfying than burning a load of alien creatures, fighting for water control is much funner than fighting for air control and I've always been a huge fun of the aging up process instead of the choosing a teching path kinda tech. But overall the game play is deeper in scII and even though it has less units and less civs its much more diverse than aoe is.

PS: I've always thought aoeIII would be much much funner if vills werent able to be garrisoned like the original aoe I think it would make the game much better.

SC for me, its just a lot more diverse, in aoe each civ had about 2 ways which they would always be played and there were beat all build orders (make ashigarus, type gg), hell I could FF against any civ on any map even against a fast toma rush.

(...)

Lastly correct army compositions really matter, unlike aoe were you could mass LI with a meatshield and that could beat about anything I like how in SCII any given game can be drastically different from the others.

TAD with fanpatch is just such a great game, several BO's for each civ and microing is really important ever since RI got .75x vs cav and cavalry got boosted.

one thing that I really find weird, is that 50% likes AoE better and 50% likes sc2 better, however at any given time there are more of the active forum members online at sc2 than at AoE.

^ i agree on TAD FP being awesome. but activity on TADFP is non existent. i dont miss waiting for hour+ for a single game and i know others agree which is why sc2 activity is much much more

[quote=""jerom""]one thing that I really find weird, is that 50% likes AoE better and 50% likes sc2 better, however at any given time there are more of the active forum members online at sc2 than at AoE.[/quote]

That's because it's really hard to find a game on Age of Empires nowadays...

Edit: damn, Dan was about 1 second earlier with posting XD

Well, comparing online activity is quite unfair since you're dealing with a brand new game that was expected for years and a game that is 5 years old with 2 expansion packs AND a fan patch. The topic title says the "better game"

[quote=""deadhanddan""]^ i agree on TAD FP being awesome. but activity on TADFP is non existent. i dont miss waiting for hour+ for a single game and i know others agree which is why sc2 activity is much much more[/quote]
But isn't that something that can make you like sc2 more, so will make you vote for sc2 ?

[quote=""deadhanddan""]sc2 all the way. goodbye to map screws , decks , F2J , OOS , HC leveling , blah blah blah blizzard's support system <3 i was hostile to sc2 before release due to changes made from sc1's style of play but after watching dozens of beta streams and playing it i couldn't stop myself from playing. due to RL i havent been able to play much at all lately but as soon as i have the free time to spam games i'll be sure toput my 1.8 month long stockpile of bonus pool points to use[/quote]

dhd is so right^^

[quote=""GrEaTeR_KnArLoC""]
Sorry AoE III, your 3v3 randoms were really fun with me pwning noobs with OP eco, but sc2 is overall a better game, especially balance wise.

Once the clan/chat/cross region support actually arrive, it will push sc2 ahead even more.[/quote]

knarloc <3

[quote=""jerom""]
What I actually want to point out, is that this is exactly the case when you are comparing AoE to SC2. AoE has some things that are better, and the other way around.[/quote]

this is true^^

However, the micro in the battles is much more fun when playing AoE, I feel that micro is rarely a real determinating factor in Starcraft 2, which I really dislike. Also, because there is more micro in AoE, you can still win a game after you have made a (big) mistake, because you can micro like god on steroids and own the other player battle after battle

ehm.. what? it is exactly the other way around, aoe required no control, sc2 does that, its just a bit too hard in sc2 cause the battles are over too fast^^
and in aoe3, if you lost your army, the game was over 95% of the time whereas in sc:bw you could comeback which made thte game interesting, soon we will see that in sc2 too

[quote=""jerom""]The balance in Starcraft 2 is just way better than in AoE, because the game is much better supported by Blizzard in terms of balance, but also because there are a lot less civs. In AoE I often have the feeling that I lose because the MU is favoring my opponent, which is a real pain in the ***. However with so few civs, games tend to look like eachother more and more, where the games in AoE where 99% different every time.[/quote]
not really, it is harder to balance sc2 than aoe if you look at it from the measures the fp dudes took. in sc2 blizzard wants the game to be diverse and fair, every aspect and unit in the game has a role. in aoe they just wanted the "fair" and we saw where it lead to ;-) every civ became the same. defensive, economical colonial play, doing same stuff again and again. the fanpatch killed aoe for me, the game was so much better before^^ fp 1.0 was a great patch, i see it on par with ES, fp 1.1 was kinda crappy but fp 1.2 was the most useless thing ever.
they had changed some things to teh (obvious) bad, and what do they do? instead of changing it back they twist it around once more

[quote=""jerom""]Also, the Starcraft 2 community is a lot bigger, which allows you to get a game really quickly. This however makes the game much more unpersonal. The AoE community was so small, that you'd play people more than once, even though you didn't ever chat to them nor did you invite them to a game. This way it is and has been a lot easier to make friends, even without a clan. In Starcraft 2 this is definitely something I miss and can't really be fixed, unless suddently almost everyone stops playing Starcraft 2.[/quote]
wait till we got clan support and chat channels, the same thing will happen again^^ and even better than in aoe, in s2 everybody logs in to play, in aoe3 who actualyl went to eso.

[quote=""jerom""]Then you have the support. The support of Blizzard is just awesome, they really listen to the community and also do whatever they can to fullfill our wishes. This is definitely something AoE can't tip. However AoE has the clan system and the chat browsers, which makes playing AoE much more fun in terms of social communication. Starcraft 2 has still the possibility to make clans, chatbrowsers and the wanted intercontinetal play available, which can be expected to happen in the upcoming year, given the great support of blizzard.[/quote]

this is true, theey listen to alot of input (comin fromeverywhere) and tehy even grant us wishes: don't forget they didn't introduce real life id's on their bnet forums, there will be chat channels and they will add custom hotkeys, etc.

[quote=""jerom""]As last, and actually the least important, their ranking systems are very different. The AoE pr system and the ELO system display the rankings much and much better than the division system of starcraft 2. The pr system is the cause of a lot of noobbashing, pointtrading and drop tricking though, which can suck, however it's easy to solve by just playing for fun and ignoring the times that you get droptricked.[/quote]

when it comes to the ranking system, the best would be a mix of aoe3 & sc2. use the pr and rank titles from aoe3 with the matchmaking of sc2
i hate the divisions, thank god we got sc2ranks.com, the problem is just bonus pool screws up everything, the rates get higher and higher. ELO system is the est when it comes to rating, it only got one problem with the winning and losing streaks. lets say you are 2100 and lose 4 games in a row, it will display you as 2012.

they will add master league and grand master league which wil help the top diamonds but for the average player, it just sucks for him. atm blizzard is focussing too much on the extremeb eginners and tourney players, and not looking at the middle which is the most important crowd actually[/quote]

thus far to me aoe3 has of course been the better game: i played sc2 in teh first month then took a break for nearly 2 months and now i play again. it will take half a year or so until i will experience the epic moments i sometimes had in aoe3 even now i know though that i will like sc2 much better as a game in the next following months

as for the thread i'm gonna pull a 36drew and ask what made you open this thread^^
i mean aoe3 is good and such but the focus lies on sc2 now. if you like aoe3 better or not is not gonna help getting players on aoe3 more often

Actually, if sc2 was played on fast speed instead of faster speed I'd like it a lot better than AoE3. Also, I've decided the combo allows you to play more than 4 hours a day without getting bored

as in sc1 , the reason why everyone played on faster is because the start of each game took forever * on normal * and in mid game the most noobish of noobs could actually micro in fights. i found this out playing iCCUP that if you tried to host a game @ normal speed ppl will cuss you out and blacklist you

[quote=""Aaryn_GenD""]fp 1.2 was the most useless thing ever.[/quote]

I wouldn't expect your run of the mill 2nd Lt. to understand balance of an intricate game, I guess you're no exception.

Edit: btw, I'm sick and tired of this Aaryn kid. Remove me from the clan if you wish, but I'm not going to sit here and let this ******* piss all over 8 months of hard work.

[quote=""Zutazuta""][quote=""Aaryn_GenD""]fp 1.2 was the most useless thing ever.[/quote]

I wouldn't expect your run of the mill 2nd Lt. to understand balance of an intricate game, I guess you're no exception.

Edit: btw, I'm sick and tired of this Aaryn kid. Remove me from the clan if you wish, but I'm not going to sit here and let this ******* piss all over 8 months of hard work.[/quote]

+1

FP1.2 was really awesome, it gives the best aoe experience possible