Strategy: TvZ - invented by TLO

Strategy and Replay Discussion, please state the matchup in the thread title

Moderators: Global Moderator, SC2 moderator

Post Reply
User avatar
Aaryn_GenD
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 3555
Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2008 9:59 pm
Location: Germany

Strategy: TvZ - invented by TLO

Post by Aaryn_GenD »

some of you who watch sc2 streams or vods from time to time might know this guy: TheLittleOne.
he is known for a very innovative playstyle and he plays random race most of the time which is pretty cool. unlike in aoe3, innovative play abroad from standard stuff can win you games if executed well. :-P
some guy analyzed his way of fighting Zerg as Terran and wrote it down in a small and nifty guide:

###############################################

Stream description: "We examine TLO's amazing terran vs zerg style! TLO uses an unorthodox "1 of each unit producing structure" style to make thors, marines, hellion, ravens, tanks and abuse zerg in every way possible early game."

Like Sean, I was blown away by the super-innovative play by TLO. Most of us have nowhere near the high level of adaptability and macro/micro skills, however there is still a great lesson here for TvZ play.

In summary, it is essentially TvZ mech with marines instead of marauders and a starport in place of an early tech lab on factory. The build order is standard 9 depot wallin, 12 rax, grab gas, OC, then factory to complete wallin, all the while making marines and SCVs. Once factory is done, he starts making hellions, making a very early push with his first one + his marines if the zerg did a FE. He also makes a starport (no addons for anything yet), then gets his 2nd gas (earlier or later, depending on aggression / possible earlier expand). The starport makes a viking, medivac, then a reactor, meanwhile he throws down a tech lab on factory, makes a tank, starts his CC to expo, and makes an armory so he can get a quick thor out. He also makes a depot slightly behind his wallin depot so he can later land / build a structure there.

At this point, he has 1 rax, 1 factory with tech lab, and 1 starport with reactor, an armory, his expo on the way and possibly a very good FE harass under his belt or a task force of marines / hellions / tank / thor available, with siege mode and/or pre-igniters researching or already complete. At some point, he lifts off the starport to build a tech lab, and builds a factory on the freed-up reactor.

All throughout this build, he is doing / has the option to do one or more of the following:

* Viking scout
* Hellion drone toastin'
* Thorship
* Tank cliff drop
* Hellion drop
* Banshee harass

Furthermore, he has a readily available counter to the following ZvT strategies:

...in problem :: solution format...

*FE :: very early marine / hellion push (due to skipping the usual reactor on rax in favor of building 2 marines) - note that this does not deny the FE insomuch as it forces the Zerg to make static D / early lings instead of powering drones, meaning that your economy will not be behind even if you start your own expo 3-5 minutes later
* Baneling bust :: ultra strong wall, marine garrison
* Early roach push :: see above, also patch 12 and relatively early tank (squashes roaches at range even without siege mode)
* Speedlings :: hellions, also no need to venture out of base by the time ling speed is done
* Mutas :: add 2 rax and ebay + turrets, make marines / vikings / thors and push, really, mutas would be suicide vs this build (as attested by Sean and shown in game 2).
* Upgraded Hydras :: marines, tanks and hellions along with Raven PDD as gas dump
* Infestors :: siege mode, hellion flank (I know they're not light, but 90 HP drops very quickly to 6 hellions)
* Brood Lords :: add starports, mass vikings & gradual introduction of BCs

The following are possible ZvT counters to this build:

* MASS Banelings :: as discussed by Sean / viewers, I can see how 80 banelings would be able to overrun everything on the ground with the lack of a marauder wall. A possible solution would be to hide your marines / hellions behind a line of sieged tanks, however 80 banelings is only 40 food, and will do 1600 (splash) damage to even non-light targets. Them critters ain't cheap though, and you can easily scout the amass and add marauders + tanks.

* Nydus Drop :: No question, this will end the game if done successfully. Counter - build depots at the edge of your base, pay VERY close attention to your sound / minimap, and have a Thor in your base ready to destroy the worm before it is finished. Constant harasses inside their base may be able to reveal that they have a Nydus Network.

* Early roach / ling backdoor push on Blistering Sands and Incineration Zone :: Obviously this is a problem if you are relying on tanks / wallin to defend vs roaches and are not able to reposition in time to get overrun. On the plus side, this type of push typically arises from 1 base play and you should be able to scout it relatively early on. That said, it may be a better idea to pursue an MM 1/1 timing push build on these maps, particularly because you can abuse the backdoors yourself (and Incineration Zone is particularly favorable for Mutas).

* Overlord drops :: Same logic as Nydus Drop, and even harder to see them coming, plus they can completely negate your tanks if you don't have enough anti-air and they can just scoot over to your siege line. Marines / thors will discourage this, however they can still drop in a corner of your base. Note that this does require two expensive upgrades, you should be able to do a meaningful push before the Zerg can get to this level of crafty / bored.

In conclusion, this is a very strong build that can potentially counter just about any common Zerg strategy, however it requires very high APM in order to be able to both harass/scout and macro simultaneously. If you can only do one at a time (like me, lol), you will probably get overrun or lose to one of the above counters.

All credits go to Sean Plott and TheLittleOne (& some <3 to Dimaga for "helping"). Please let me know if I missed anything important.
Last edited by Aaryn_GenD on Thu Jul 15, 2010 10:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Image
huGGy
N3O Officer
N3O Officer
Posts: 1738
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2008 4:06 pm

Re: TvZ strategy invented by TLO

Post by huGGy »

[quote=""Aaryn_GenD""] unlike in aoe3, innovative play abroad from standard stuff can win you games if executed well. :-P
[/quote]

Works in AoE as well ;)
User avatar
Aaryn_GenD
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 3555
Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2008 9:59 pm
Location: Germany

Re: TvZ strategy invented by TLO

Post by Aaryn_GenD »

[quote=""HuggyPierre""][quote=""Aaryn_GenD""] unlike in aoe3, innovative play abroad from standard stuff can win you games if executed well. :-P
[/quote]

Works in AoE as well ;)[/quote]

people like you or sporting don't count, sorry :-P
Image
Post Reply