Dragoons

[Sporting_Lisbon]

http://agesanctuary.com/index.php?porta ... pic=117284

At ages they're discussing goons and some think that they're too good? I really don't think so, I always had success countering them with skirm-like units and people always had success countering my goons with skirm-like units except in some situations like strelets vs port goons. Abus have a problem too but it's an abus problem not a goon problem.

What do you guys think? If they go with that versatility crap they should nerf RI even further because RI counters HI and RC while HI only counters cav.

[GeneralMichael]

I've never had any problems with fighting against dragoons. The only problem is fighting with them. Sometimes I'm forced to use them since my heavy infantry are getting mauled by the enemies cannons and then they bring in some heavy calv like france's cuirs or russia's oprichs to take down my walls. So with costing 2 pop it is a lot harder to stop the calvary since they cost so much and like all ranged units they take a bit of time to reload. So if anything I think they need to be made stronger

[Blackadderthe4th]

I can remember one or two occasions when my Port Dragoons were going toe to toe with skirms, but they were fully upgraded and I was at least 1 age above them and even then they didn't 'own' them. Dragoons are a very specialized unit, nerf them and no-ones gonna bother using them.

[I__CHAOS__I]

I always had the impression dragoons were the most balanced unit out there :/

[Sporting_Lisbon]

Yes, ERK's got that extra nerf of RI dealing 2X instead of 1.5X and they're useless now :\

[ckei]

well goons are alrigth,but in early fortress they can even beat their own counters which makes them perhaps a little bit op early on.But eventually they fall back

[deadhanddan]

goons are ok ( except ports industrial 20 range monsters , but they arent OP imho , only OP goon is spain goonspam with 10 missionaries to back em up ) only goon unit i detest with a passion is the ruyter , those things need to be 2 pop or something , atm pure ruyter spams , especially in team games can counter not only cav but also heavy infantry-seige. only thing a dutch player may need to make other then the pure ruyter spam is a small batch of hussar if the skirms are too much too handle

[Sporting_Lisbon]

Actually goons did need that nerf. My original post is outdated :p

[generalbuschmann]

they do to good vs everything except of skirms

[Lost_my_hope]

I don't like to play vs them, if your opponent has the cash, they're like fast musketeers :neutral: But I don't think they need a nerf, they already lost 10% ranged resistance which makes skirms most likely a hard enough counter. Somehow I feel Counter infantry rifling should give skirms an increased boost vs ranged cav too, but since I've been fired at the balance team and replaced by Parfait, I can't really do anything about that anymore.

[Kaiser_von_Nuben]

[quote=""Lost_my_hope""]I don't like to play vs them, if your opponent has the cash, they're like fast musketeers :neutral: But I don't think they need a nerf, they already lost 10% ranged resistance which makes skirms most likely a hard enough counter. Somehow I feel Counter infantry rifling should give skirms an increased boost vs ranged cav too, but since I've been fired at the balance team and replaced by Parfait, I can't really do anything about that anymore.[/quote]

I completely agree with this. There's no upgrade that boosts modifiers against ranged cav. And when I'm playing the stupid Sioux, I sure would love one.

[36drew]

In FP 1.2 goons were just fine with 20% RR IMO. The problem isn't the goons per say. The problem is that in skilled hands they can be unreal units. For example, give a sarge 20 goons and they just get thrown away. Whereas units with simpler micro like musketeers will be far more effective for him.

Give 20 goons to a brigadier and they can accomplish almost any task with them. Anti-cav, raiders, do well against RI, take out cannons, etc. Whereas the same musketeers with the brig will be more effective, but they can't take advantage of the unit as much.

This is why in team games it is important that your really skilled player has a difficult unit to spam/micro. For example the LB spam is pretty simple. Hussar spam with raids etc is more difficult.

[Kaiser_von_Nuben]

^Nice post, Drew. Totally agree.

Does this mean I should give the Major General on the team responsibility to spam envoys? ::/

[danno527]

^^
Funny, i dont think so but you could get him to do a scout slam.

[Blackadderthe4th]

[quote=""36drew""]In FP 1.2 goons were just fine with 20% RR IMO. The problem isn't the goons per say. The problem is that in skilled hands they can be unreal units. For example, give a sarge 20 goons and they just get thrown away. Whereas units with simpler micro like musketeers will be far more effective for him.

Give 20 goons to a brigadier and they can accomplish almost any task with them. Anti-cav, raiders, do well against RI, take out cannons, etc. Whereas the same musketeers with the brig will be more effective, but they can't take advantage of the unit as much.

This is why in team games it is important that your really skilled player has a difficult unit to spam/micro. For example the LB spam is pretty simple. Hussar spam with raids etc is more difficult.[/quote]

Good point, espeacially about the lbows. En mass those things are killing machines, I've seen the lowest PR player in a game wipe everyone out with a simple lbow spam. Like you say, when your deciding roles at the start of team games, the tricky units should be given to the best players and let everyone else force their way through with brute strength and mass.