The New Spanish Square

Talk about Strategies and share your Replays here

Moderators: Global Moderator, Age Moderator

Post Reply
User avatar
Palehorse
Honorary Member
Honorary Member
Posts: 216
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2007 12:17 pm

The New Spanish Square

Post by Palehorse »

First, the old: Pike and shot/quarrel, combined arms

I have spent the last ~year of playing Spain in 1v1 (ES patch only) using either an all out archaic rush or semi-ff, combined arms of crossbows and pikes. What little success I have had has been attributable, IMHO, to the speed Spain can mass either.

However, in team games, it is consistently (90% of the time) a total waste.

1) Pikes are just too darn slow to provide good anti-cav, and there will be cav; better to ship rods methinks.

2) It takes alot of Crossbows to reach critical mass, harder still diverting resources to pikes.

3) Crossbows just don't cut it verses any other ranged infantry, unless you really outmass them or ship an early unction, which is rare in either case.


The New Spanish Square:

Similar 16 pop start, using 3 vils card, gold/tower politician.

Max out to 5 war dogs in transition.

Lay down a stable and queue 5 hussars ASAP and use first shipment for rodeleros. Build a rax.

When the rods arrive, send the dogs/hussars/rods head hunting.

In my experience, in the opening stages of colonial, even the smallest raid can be so disruptive as to stall the early stages of an infantry attack from a forward base.

I have the following age 1/2 cards, and use them as necessary based on what the enemy force is doing.


- Team archaic, economic theory
- 4 vil, 5 vil, 700 wood/food/gold, 2 towers, unction, riding/fencing school

I have thought of adding team explorer combat to this. Any thoughts?
Image
User avatar
Aaryn_GenD
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 3555
Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2008 9:59 pm
Location: Germany

Re: The New Spanish Square

Post by Aaryn_GenD »

team explorer ocmbat is a waste, remove thoes 2 towers and get adv arsenal, xbows are as good as they were never before in the fanpatches, first the boost, 2nd the arsenal techs and the arsenal itself being way ore affordable than before.

spain has alot of variety in their semi-ffs, also this 5/4huss semi-ff thingy can be executed well by any euro civ

my tip is to send archaic infantry later if oyu go xbow/pike, like at 10-12min or so, you won't have the eco to support units trianing that fast ;-)
also don't forget that xbow/pike is the most flexible unit combo early on, you can adjust your ratio of pikes to xbows perfectly, as both share identical costs

later in fort, rod+lancer is an evil combo, combined with a bit of skirm support and a few falcs
Image
User avatar
Palehorse
Honorary Member
Honorary Member
Posts: 216
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2007 12:17 pm

Re: The New Spanish Square

Post by Palehorse »

Aaryn_GenD wrote: team explorer ocmbat is a waste
Sorry, I got that card confused with Conquistador, but probably still a waste.
Image
User avatar
36drew
Honorary Officer
Posts: 2713
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2007 6:22 am

Re: The New Spanish Square

Post by 36drew »

[quote=""Palehorse""]First, the old: Pike and shot/quarrel, combined arms

I have spent the last ~year of playing Spain in 1v1 (ES patch only) using either an all out archaic rush or semi-ff, combined arms of crossbows and pikes. What little success I have had has been attributable, IMHO, to the speed Spain can mass either.

However, in team games, it is consistently (90% of the time) a total waste.

1) Pikes are just too darn slow to provide good anti-cav, and there will be cav; better to ship rods methinks.

2) It takes alot of Crossbows to reach critical mass, harder still diverting resources to pikes.

3) Crossbows just don't cut it verses any other ranged infantry, unless you really outmass them or ship an early unction, which is rare in either case.


The New Spanish Square:

Similar 16 pop start, using 3 vils card, gold/tower politician.

Max out to 5 war dogs in transition.

Lay down a stable and queue 5 hussars ASAP and use first shipment for rodeleros. Build a rax.

When the rods arrive, send the dogs/hussars/rods head hunting.

In my experience, in the opening stages of colonial, even the smallest raid can be so disruptive as to stall the early stages of an infantry attack from a forward base.

I have the following age 1/2 cards, and use them as necessary based on what the enemy force is doing.


- Team archaic, economic theory
- 4 vil, 5 vil, 700 wood/food/gold, 2 towers, unction, riding/fencing school

I have thought of adding team explorer combat to this. Any thoughts?[/quote]

Don't underestimate the strength and duty of crossbows. They actually are more cost effective than a skirmisher in a RI fight, and they do their job vs. most heavy infantry. As the game goes on a natural progression to skirmishers with CIR is in line of course. Keep in mind that 10 xbows will one hit kill just about every single colonial infantry unit.

Pikes certainly have their use as well, and as you mentioned in a team game they are useful in an archaic rush. I often ship 8 pikes, but in age iii the 10 pike shipment seems better replaced by 4 lancers, 2 cannons, 5 hussars, 1000 wood, or perhaps highlanders/swiss pikes.

I play Spain almost exactly the same everytime. Market in discovery with a 15 villager age up. It's very tricky though and without question the most complicated discovery market since your first 3 villager shipment can house you and lead to a 5min + age up time if you are not careful (or if your math is wrong).

I normally always go 3 vill, 700w, 5vill, 4vill -- then fortress. Thats with 2 groups of hussars. If i'm under pressure than the wood shipment is used to put up a barracks and train whatever colonial units are necessary (usually xbows + huss + rod/pike shipments can do the job -- ofc minutemen + wardogs help too).

You are correct that early raids are critical. Even if you just keep your opponent on his toes or in his TC, you are wasting his villager seconds. And also make sure you scout with your explorer/wardog seperate in the early stage. Don't be lazy (like me sometimes LOL). That way you can glance at down hunts for raids, gold mines, etc.

Spain is an underutilized civ IMO. And perhaps they don't deserve enough credit. One thing about spain is that most people don't know what to expect since they are used very little.

I played NP a while back, and he sent 8 pikes to his age up tower very early and it was very scary. It was gg before 9 minutes.
Post Reply