Which is Most OP in NR10

[cheesehat]

Ok...read the poll above, which is the most OP strat in Nr10 and why? (Yes I do want to start laming, yes I do suck, no I am not a smurf)

Please discuss your strats so others can lame too! Also feel free to add anything I didnt include so far

[cheesehat]

Ok just some background on the strategies:

Spain + Russia Unction Pike spam: The unction card has been in debate since it came out. It is clearly a good weapon in treaty 40 games, with spanish musketeers being stronger than Japanese Ashigaru and Imperial Lancers defeating Imperial Hussars and acting as moving cannon (284 FU vs inf, 2-3 hit KO at most vs infantry)

In Rush, the use has been disputed as a 'waste of a card' and something that can't be sent at any given time. Also, the missionary costs, the cost of making a church (when you don't want one) and teh cost and slow train time of the missonaries themselves.

The Russian Cheap Monks card makes missionaries train faster and cost less. Churches are also far cheaper. Still, the strategy still takes a long time to dish out and if you are rushed at 6-7 mins its GG.

Hence, we have the closest thing to rush that isnt rush - 10 min treaty. You are looking to get a force of ~30 (yeah, only 30) settlers, 10 missionaries, the unction card sent and 50 pikes (veteran does not matter, however, being in fortress age wouldn't hurt). Each pike has 32 seige attack and with the 163% bonus 10 missionaries give you, that is a 51 seige pike (this is increased with veteran pikes, but 51 seige is more than an imperial hussar anyway). 50 of them take down a TC in 10 seconds, plus or minus a few. Also, the russian mass military and cheaper army allow constant spam of many troops used as a decoy primarily to draw fire away from the suicide pikes.

This is especially useful vs revolts (primarily otto, france revolution has also been tried and despite teh defense of its few users, it is considered inferior) as if the TC dies you die.

To use this strategy, try to attack from the sides of the map or away from the main central point. Get your russian 50 muskets or whatever and take in fire, wait for the opponents to call you noob and run into your town. When they say GG, run into theirs and burn their town 5x the speed they burn yours (you don't have to wait for them to say GG...)

[GeneralMichael]

Ok I gotta say the Russia Spain combo is the best. Once you get 10 missionaires out there it is hard to stop your army since all your units get a 65% attack bonus. Also most games that I play as spain nobody really ever attacks my missionaries unit they are running low on targets, which usually happens only when I'm switiching where I'm attacking. Anyway the missionaires are very hard to take out too. Nothing really does much damage to them. I like to think of it this way, with 10 misionaires all your guys are = 1.65 of thier normal unit, so as long as you are atleast 1/3 the guys size in an even unit match up you should win.

[cheesehat]

Ottoman Revolution


The ottoman Revolution is an ancient strategy employed not soon after the release of TWC. The Pros and Cons of this strategy have been argued extensively, with the conclusion that at expert levels (36+) it is not wholly sound. The revolutionist gives up his whole economy for ~20 Colonial Militia (not minutemen...), 10 Imperial Hussr (with the name of Veteran Hussar but it looks like an IMP hussar) and the automatic upgrade of all other hussars you own. This is why in extra resource maps such as Deccan, ti is often possible to delete a settler, ship 8 hussars and have 18 IMP hussar instead of 10, which practically doubles your attacking force.

Before I continue I must expand on Drew's note on Cav vs Cav engagement. They are not only valid for Cav vs Cav situations. Take, for example, your 18 IMP hussars vs 30-40 muskets. Now let us simplify the situation. We have imperial units vs Colonial Units. To accurately calculate the result, we must make a 'common denominator' (lame)

18 Imp hussars are statistically the same as 36 normal hussars. 36 Normal hussars would probably defeat 30 Muskets, with heavy losses however, so the natural inclination would be to run away. However, that is not the whole story. Also to note is that if you deal 321 damage to a nromal hussar, it dies and there goes 30 attack power. If you do 321 damage to a IMP hussar, it does not die, does not lose 30 attack power, and keeps fighting on with the same strenght. So we can reacht eh conclusion that 18 IMP hussars are worth mORE than 36 normal hussars, probably around 40-45. 40 Hussars easily beat 30 muskets, so I would confidently charge in.



The great disadvantage of this strategy of this strategy is ofcourse the lag of economy. Often you will need several Trade Posts to keep a steady spam of Cms and Gattling Guns. Despite the Raw Power of the first assault (20 CMs+anywhere between 20-45 hussars), once they kill your TC you lose. Hence this strategy is not wholly valid, if they can tell you revolt then all they do is run away with a few settlers, spam pikes and burn your TC to the ground. Then its GG.

However, lower rank players (18-24 primarily) do not understand these complex mechanics (I only became aware because I play chess...), a brute force of such a strong army would send them hiding behind a few houses, 5 Janissaries and a TC. That is just a recipe for disaster and the Desperado Attack the Revolution actually is will be successful. Heck, even stronger rated players do not use the pike-spam strat and pwn the TC, they spam muskets and try to take the battle to them IN THEIR TOWN. While Japan would probably be able to take this brute force, along with Germany's WW hack spam, nothing else much could. THe initial revolution army is stronger than almost any army available at 10 minutes, with the exception of Japanese Ashi spam army and a strong German Player WW spam*. This means that passive resistance invariably fails vs desperado attacks.


As stated before, if you can burn their TC you win. Hence this strategy is not considered wholly sound at expert level, but is still a nice weapon.


*Only War Wagons can be used as they are as strong as Imperial Dragoons. Any other Light Cav just gets destroyed by CMs and don't really do enough damage to the Hussars anyway

[cheesehat]

Japanese Shrine Spam




This very easy beginners strategy requires only a lv10 HC to pull off. Simple, quick and easy to use, you can get an army of 20-30 Ashis and a Daimyo with a strong eco to back it up.

Heavenly Kami makes shrines cheaper, Port Consulate makes shrines cheaper...75 wood shrines+2 explorers means you don't have to waste Villager seconds. 20 Shrines can go up by 8 mins and then you can just start spamming Ashigaru and win.

Of course, every strategy has a weakness and this one would be the awkward situation of attack and defense. In most other strategies, you can just attack. you HAVE to just attack. Here, attacking might leave yourself Open to a Revolter's brute force, defending might allow the opponent to catch up to your boom and military might. You need a high proficiency in decision making and lots fo experience to pull this strat effectively. Anyone can do the boom part, few can follow it up successfully (i cant either)

[Aaryn_GenD]

i wonder where you wanna get these kinds of nr10 games, everybody plays nr40, i bet there are only like 1 to 2 nr10 games played in a day :/

especially a 2v2

[lordandcount]

otto fast revolution is very strong, I used in quite some 1v1 which i won

[Kaiser_von_Nuben]

[quote=""Aaryn_GenD""]i wonder where you wanna get these kinds of nr10 games, everybody plays nr40, i bet there are only like 1 to 2 nr10 games played in a day :/

especially a 2v2[/quote]

You'd be surprised. There is more to treaty mode than NR 40. Several months ago I played a bunch of NR 10 and NR 20. Those are a lot of fun, because they are not like your usual treaty game. If you only have 10 minutes, it's usually a FF or FI war. Pretty fun stuff. I nailed down some nice German and British builds in NR 10 and even took down a treaty Colonel with a German heavy cannon FI (Age IV by 9:30).

NR 20 is my favorite. Joe4holly is is NR 20 king with Brits; I have some good German strats, too. NR 20 is early industrial war... very fun; although it usually involves one huge battle that decides the game within 2 minutes.

BTW- I voted for Otto revolt as best NR 10 strat. It is really hard to stop at 11 minutes... 10 60 attack, 480 HP hussars and 30 militia which pwn cav. You might also want to try the Port FI, too. They can get a bunch of outlaws from the revolt, plus even more militia than the Ottos at 11 min.

[joe4holly]

[quote=""Kaiser_von_Nuben""]

You'd be surprised. There is more to treaty mode than NR 40. Several months ago I played a bunch of NR 10 and NR 20. Those are a lot of fun, because they are not like your usual treaty game. If you only have 10 minutes, it's usually a FF or FI war. Pretty fun stuff. I nailed down some nice German and British builds in NR 10 and even took down a treaty Colonel with a German heavy cannon FI (Age IV by 9:30).

NR 20 is my favorite. Joe4holly is is NR 20 king with Brits; I have some good German strats, too. NR 20 is early industrial war... very fun; although it usually involves one huge battle that decides the game within 2 minutes.[/quote]

brits N20 mannor boom in age 2(send 700 wood) go to age 4 send estate then make musk and rockets.when treaty is over work on adding in some cav.

EDIT ben we should get some treaty games done , maybe a vod ?

[Kaiser_von_Nuben]

[quote=""joe4holly""][quote=""Kaiser_von_Nuben""]

You'd be surprised. There is more to treaty mode than NR 40. Several months ago I played a bunch of NR 10 and NR 20. Those are a lot of fun, because they are not like your usual treaty game. If you only have 10 minutes, it's usually a FF or FI war. Pretty fun stuff. I nailed down some nice German and British builds in NR 10 and even took down a treaty Colonel with a German heavy cannon FI (Age IV by 9:30).

NR 20 is my favorite. Joe4holly is is NR 20 king with Brits; I have some good German strats, too. NR 20 is early industrial war... very fun; although it usually involves one huge battle that decides the game within 2 minutes.[/quote]

brits N20 mannor boom in age 2(send 700 wood) go to age 4 send estate then make musk and rockets.when treaty is over work on adding in some cav.

EDIT ben we should get some treaty games done , maybe a vod ?[/quote]

Sounds good to me, Joe. Hopefully next month I will get on ESO more than these days.

Also, @Cheesehat: The Germans theoretically counter the Otto revolt with WW, but at that early stage (11-12 min), they can't mass enough WW to make a difference. WW cost a lot and they train very slowly. You can ship 3, but the problem is that militia does 52 damage per shot against ALL cav AT RANGE (this makes them unique... a ranged bonus modifier against cav as a musket unit). That is a lot, and you can't afford to lose the WW against that huge mass. Uhlans are suicidal, too; militia and Imp Hussars beat them easily, even at veteran level. Finally, it is suicidal to build skirms because the Imp Hussars eat them for lunch.

I know these facts from hard experience!

[cheesehat]

Quite the opposite for me, actually. The only Civ I can't beat (except for OP Japan...) with the Ottoman Revolt is Germany cos of their *** WWs...they have like 5 by the end of treaty and although 10 Imp Hussars>5 Imp Dragoons (War Wagon is only 2 attack off of an IMP Dragoon), you can't keep making hussars (Unless its 2v2 and you are fed) and they can keep making WWs, even if it is slowly.

For Germany, if their 6 Howitzer revolt wasn't so slow, It would be my fave. Burn a town just as fast as the 50 pike rush

For the Record I voted for the Jap Shrine boom, good eco AND military, something the 70 settler boom lacks (only like 10-20 muskies)

[Aaryn_GenD]

[quote=""Kaiser_von_Nuben""]It is really hard to stop at 11 minutes... 10 60 attack, 480 HP hussars and 30 militia which pwn cav.[/quote]

a good otto fi has like ~25 imp hussars and 23 CM. they send the hussar sihpments in age3&4 i thnk and they use the hussar politician for age3
i remember l&c doing that on texas

[deadhanddan]

i voted for the brit 70 vill option, i just feel that 70 vills tucked safely behind a wall or two with decent micro and the infinite 2 rocket card(factories on food/gold for a constant stream of musket and dragoon) with a growing eco can out do a fast revolt, i'm probably wrong but from my experience this would be the way to go (for me)

[hallchr]

I only play supremacy as I can't really figure out the mechanics of NR 10.

[deadhanddan]

basically best way to describe nr 10 is a supremacy game w/o a rush, which can be very good for certain civs, most notably being dutch, ports, and brits