Late Game Ports - Can They be Stopped?

[Sporting_Lisbon]

Trust me that if you send CM you will have your arse saved more often than eco theory.

[Tatltael]

true. but when youre spamming an army in colonial its nice to have eco theory, cause the stackage is beautiful once u combine it with market upgrades

[Sporting_Lisbon]

But what are you doing in colonial? If you're on sea you'd have shipped schooners not eco theory. Port should FF on land 100% of the times imo.

[Tatltael]

on land i think colonial warfare with ports is definitely viable, eco theory + markets = easy hussar / xbow spam backed by a sweet booming eco with two town centers in front of it. it makes a nice combination.

dunno. hm FF on land might be better, ehh.

[TheRam]

On land FF = an extra TC, sub 6:30 and instant fortress cards and 2 organ guns vs mass infantry = attack subdued.
It doesn't make sense trying to get a great economy to spam hussar/xbow (slightly odd resources, too - in early colonial there's no chance of getting 120food for each hussar, 200 food for villager production at TC and 40 for Xbow every 30 seconds of so.
If you can pull of a Hussar/Xbow spam you're probably much better than your oponent, is what I'm trying to say.

[Sporting_Lisbon]

Yeah land Port's colo sucks hard o_O

[Kaiser_von_Nuben]

[quote=""Sporting_Lisbon""]Yeah land Port's colo sucks hard o_O[/quote]

From what I've gathered, the most viable thing to do on land as Ports in colonial is put up a stable and harass with 5 hussars while going to fort... in other words, get out of colonial ASAP.

[Tatltael]

i never have trouble playing colonial ports hussar/xbow/constant tc spam

o_O ecotheory/market! 700 food!

[Sporting_Lisbon]

You won't beat several civs that's for sure. India, Jap, Aztec (I won't waste my time explaining :p) Iro will harass you and won't let you harass him cause map control is his with the hut travois, Sioux I dunno but if they harass and go fortress Chaos' style Port's dead, Brits outboom Ports' 2 tcs, Russia outbooms Ports 2 tcs, Otto goes FF, Dutch it they turtle will outspam Ports, etc. Germans' uhlans are pain.

You'd keep up with Spain French, China perhaps, but I'm afraid that's the end of the line. Don't forget that Ports are turtle civ. You can't FF well as Brit either or rush well as Dutch.

[I__CHAOS__I]

I agree with Sporting, but having the element of surprise (by going xbow/hussar) might pay off more than it would 'in theory'
would love to see a rec of it

[Sporting_Lisbon]

Ofc surprise counts, a Port pike rush would beat a naked FF too. A rec would be nice yeah

[TheRam]

If what you're saying is literally Hussar/Xbow it really sucks vs any team with easily massable cav - Russia, Sioux, German and in a rush China (7 Steppe rocks) and ports really either have to go for weaker military for a better army and hope you micro better/don't get pushed OR more army and you'll end up losing despite your "technical" economic advantage vs most civs.
The lack of a settler card means that you're using economic theory to have an economy that's STILL WORSE than your oponents with +3 settlers (until you have 30 ish villagers) and so there's no way you can keep up 2 TC settlers + an army.. and if you don't boom, you're not using ports to their full capability when you stay in colonial, IMO.

[Am3ricanCa3sar]

[quote=""Sporting_Lisbon""] Port should FF on land 100% of the times imo.[/quote]
i used to think that, but some civs can just come to fast and to hard. in general i think a semi ff, is stronger than a ff. how fast of a ff you do depends on what oppenent is doing. could be my playstyle though, and i don't play as tough a competition regularly as you do, so in the end i would defer to you. just my thoughts.

[Tatltael]

ill get a rec up of my ports i suppose

[Kaiser_von_Nuben]

I just watched an expert rec (Port v. Japan) in which the Port tried to bother the Jap with xbows and pikes until he went to fort. Problem was, even 10 ashis with 4.5 speed were able to chase away and kill the xbows (the broken counter system at its finest), then the Jap massed more muskets while the Port massed some cassas, goons and 2 organ guns. The Port managed to keep the Japs at bay with this army, but soon enough the Jap aged, cranked out about 40 ashis and 10 nags, sent the daimyo and just crushed everything the Port had with relative ease. Toward the end, the Jap massed flaming arrows, which killed the goons and the cassas. Anything that survived fell easily to disciplined ashi doing 53 attack in age III (just to put this in perspective, an imperial redcoat with all upgrades does 55 attack). Even the 5 mamelukes went down like uhlans to these ashis.

This game was good proof that Japanese units just dominate at certain points in a match. Port had no chance here, even with a PR advantage. The colonial harassment did nothing to change the result. Then again, trying to raid Japan is almost a contradiction in terms.