Russia vs Japan

[Soccerman771]

[quote=""EndlessPower""][quote=""HuggyPierre""][quote=""EndlessPower""][quote=""Tatltael""]nagi > everything russia has in age 2[/quote]

U took my words
Exactly, if you're playing a decent japan you may resign at start coz it's an impossible matchup unless you outrank your oponent big time.

[quote=""HuggyPierre""]
Nah Cossacks beat them. The problem is the second unit he has. Ashis beat Cossacks and Muskets and Yumis beat Muskets and Strelets faster than Cossacks beat Nagis. Plus, massed Yumis somehow beat Cav, if the cav can't touch them (Nagis).[/quote]


Cossacks? He doesn't even need ashis when all he has to do is bring out some FREE konshas from his consulate and even without the konshas, the jap eco can hold an early cav spam a lot more effectively than the russian eco.[/quote]

I wasn't speaking about a cav spam. Tatl just said Nagis beat anything russia has in Age2. That's not exactly right (-> Cossacks). You have to start with muskets (5 free cossacks, then 13 strelets) and attack the jap-guy quickly. Bring down the stable asap. When he has the chance to get 6-8 Nagis out (+Conshas and shipments) it's gg.[/quote]

Not true. I have tested it in scenario editor. I made a fight between 1 nagi and 1 cossack, 5 nagis and 5 cossacks and 20 nagis and 20 cossacks.
Clearly if you consider both units' stats you'll see that nagis won all the battles. So I can clearly confirm that nagis do own everything russia has in age II. Tatl is right.


EDIT:
btw here are the results of my test

1 nagi vs 1 cossack = 1 nagi survives with about half HP

5 nagis vs 5 cossacks = 3 nagis survive

20 nagis vs 20 cossacks = 14 nagis survive

All battles were obviously unmicroed from both sides in order to confirm accurately which unit is stronger.[/quote]

You forgot to factor in cost. Nagi's cost a lot more than Cossacks....

[I__CHAOS__I]

compare it costwise...

[EndlessPower]

That's a diferent situation. If I consider the cost of nagis and cossacks I'll have to consider the ECO that's behind each one of them, Japan eco is loads stronger than russian, almost like David and Golias.

Where I was trying to get is how broken the system is and to prove that Tatl was right. Nagis do own everything russia has in age II.

EDIT:

Now I compared them costwise. Let's consider the diferent factors:

-We know that if in a 1on1 battle (nagi vs cossack) the nagi keeps about 50% his HP, he's directly twice as good as a cossack (plus his bonus against RI and his negative multiplier against HI which considering his base attack still allows him to face HI, in this case he does beat russian musketeers)

- Nagi costs 100f 100c, cossack costs 75f 75c. Japanese Eco allows a cav spam alot earlier than russian.

-The cost diference is nagi is 1/4 more expensive than cossack, when its quality raises to 2/4 higher than the cossack. I guess it's clear enough now.
(Not considering the multiplier against RI)

- The cost for nagis to be equal to cossacks would be one of the following:
- 150f ; 100c // -125f; 125c // - 100f; 150c //

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I guess it's clear now that nagis do own everything russia has in age II.

[huGGy]

[quote=""EndlessPower""][quote=""HuggyPierre""][quote=""EndlessPower""][quote=""Tatltael""]nagi > everything russia has in age 2[/quote]

U took my words
Exactly, if you're playing a decent japan you may resign at start coz it's an impossible matchup unless you outrank your oponent big time.

[quote=""HuggyPierre""]
Nah Cossacks beat them. The problem is the second unit he has. Ashis beat Cossacks and Muskets and Yumis beat Muskets and Strelets faster than Cossacks beat Nagis. Plus, massed Yumis somehow beat Cav, if the cav can't touch them (Nagis).[/quote]


Cossacks? He doesn't even need ashis when all he has to do is bring out some FREE konshas from his consulate and even without the konshas, the jap eco can hold an early cav spam a lot more effectively than the russian eco.[/quote]

I wasn't speaking about a cav spam. Tatl just said Nagis beat anything russia has in Age2. That's not exactly right (-> Cossacks). You have to start with muskets (5 free cossacks, then 13 strelets) and attack the jap-guy quickly. Bring down the stable asap. When he has the chance to get 6-8 Nagis out (+Conshas and shipments) it's gg.[/quote]

Not true. I have tested it in scenario editor. I made a fight between 1 nagi and 1 cossack, 5 nagis and 5 cossacks and 20 nagis and 20 cossacks.
Clearly if you consider both units' stats you'll see that nagis won all the battles. So I can clearly confirm that nagis do own everything russia has in age II. Tatl is right.


EDIT:
btw here are the results of my test

1 nagi vs 1 cossack = 1 nagi survives with about half HP

5 nagis vs 5 cossacks = 3 nagis survive

20 nagis vs 20 cossacks = 14 nagis survive

All battles were obviously unmicroed from both sides in order to confirm accurately which unit is stronger.[/quote]

Cossacks are 75 food and 75 gold, Nagis 100 food and 100 gold. So you gotta send 3 Nagis vs 4 Cossacks. Plus Cossacks train faster and have 2 upgrade cards in Age2 resp. Age1.

It's definitely not so clear you make it. Nevertheless, Japan > Russia.

Edit: You can't spam Nagis early on. Jap Eco is strong, but not that early. He can build 3, maybe 4 Nagis with good treasures or a good map, with the first bunch. Russia can have 9 Cossacks then. The biggest problem aren't Nagis. The biggest problem are these Consha Dudes.

If the japanese guy builds his base smart, russia won't beat him. Maybe a semi-FF for this reform card and some cannons can work. I saw Oedy do so once.

[Tatltael]

japan is able to spam constant nagi around 7:30~ (and sometimes even earlier) comparing cost doesnt matter, because he will still be making batches of 5 nagi vs. your 4-5 cossack. nagi/ club = gg.

dont even mention yumi / nagi / club theres no real reason to russia to win this

[huGGy]

[quote=""Tatltael""]japan is able to spam constant nagi around 7:30~ (and sometimes even earlier) comparing cost doesnt matter, because he will still be making batches of 5 nagi vs. your 4-5 cossack. nagi/ club = gg.

dont even mention yumi / nagi / club theres no real reason to russia to win this[/quote]

Yes. You have to be in his base before this 7 minute mark. Destroy his stable keep him from gathering wood and coin (shrines can only give you one thing). But this is risky. Semi-FF for reform card and cannons is the best choice vs higher ranked players imo.

[EndlessPower]

[quote=""HuggyPierre""][quote=""Tatltael""]japan is able to spam constant nagi around 7:30~ (and sometimes even earlier) comparing cost doesnt matter, because he will still be making batches of 5 nagi vs. your 4-5 cossack. nagi/ club = gg.

dont even mention yumi / nagi / club theres no real reason to russia to win this[/quote]

Yes. You have to be in his base before this 7 minute mark. Destroy his stable keep him from gathering wood and coin (shrines can only give you one thing). But this is risky. Semi-FF for reform card and cannons is the best choice vs higher ranked players imo.[/quote]

TC is imba you know. If you had read the secound reply including the economic point of view and comparing both booming capacities from russia and japan you wouldn't have replied what you have, right below me. I made it clear enough that nagis have a clear advantage on the numbers and have a much stronger eco behind them with shrines generating res which allows the japan guy to spam them pretty quick and easy.

There's nothing we can say, it's just an imbalanced match for japan to own.

BTW destroying the stable with strelets under TC fire is not easy.

[huGGy]

I can just speak from my experience. I had a couple of those matchups and lost a lot. I know that it's a damn tough matchup for russia. You gotta look for little mistakes the japan player does. Placing the stable wrong or something. Normally they send 300xp, get a consulate and a stable. Also they need shrines for space. All this cost a lot of wood, you got to collect with some vills. These vills can't collect food and coins in the meantime. So if you attack early, the jap guy can't have 5 Nagis.

And if you build strelets vs a jap guy who builds a stable, well, then you deserve to lose the game. All you need is the 13 strelets shipment.

If both played a perfect game, japan would win though.

[dragonshinobi_old]

just get in his base and take out his TC. once you have his base, then its gg.

[dragonshinobi]

[quote=""dragonshinobi""]just get in his base and take out his TC. once you have his base, then its gg.[/quote]

yeah but try that with ottos

lamers (no offense but u are)

[dragonshinobi_old]

[quote=""[N30"]dragonshinobi"][quote=""dragonshinobi""]just get in his base and take out his TC. once you have his base, then its gg.[/quote]

yeah but try that with ottos

lamers (no offense but u are)[/quote]

lol man just go age 3 or 4