Russia vs Japan

[rufio_eht]

What do u guys think in general. I think I could have won if I destroyed all his shrines sooner, as I had the advantage for about 20 min. On great plains btw. Thoughts on the matchup in general?

[Soccerman771]

14 vil age-up and keep him in his TC. Pressure, pressure, pressure w/strelets and musks. If the japan player goes nagi/yumi combo with an effective shrine-boom you're pretty much toast. Use those handy-dandy cossacks from shipments to keep his explorers from building shrines. One of the "easier" matchups to play against Japan.

[huGGy]

[quote=""Soccerman771""]14 vil age-up and keep him in his TC. Pressure, pressure, pressure w/strelets and musks. If the japan player goes nagi/yumi combo with an effective shrine-boom you're pretty much toast. Use those handy-dandy cossacks from shipments to keep his explorers from building shrines. One of the "easier" matchups to play against Japan.[/quote]

Nah. In general you are right. Pressure him to death. You don't need Vills in the beginning. Send in Troops like stupid. The problem is, good Jap players (I would say major+) can beat this attack pretty easy. They go for a stable and consulate (for these warclub dudes), you lose the first fight (clubs defend the yumis he sent) and it's pretty much gg. On water maps you have good chance. Be aggressive but boom on water (3 docks). You can beat him in Age3 then.

[Tatltael]

nagi > everything russia has in age 2

[huGGy]

[quote=""Tatltael""]nagi > everything russia has in age 2[/quote]

Nah Cossacks beat them. The problem is the second unit he has. Ashis beat Cossacks and Muskets and Yumis beat Muskets and Strelets faster than Cossacks beat Nagis. Plus, massed Yumis somehow beat Cav, if the cav can't touch them (Nagis).

[I__CHAOS__I]

FF for oprichniks and 3TC boom
they wont see it coming

[rufio_eht]

yea lol, wow. in this particular game, scores were pretty much even but once my pressure finally broke his econ took off.

[EndlessPower]

[quote=""Tatltael""]nagi > everything russia has in age 2[/quote]

U took my words
Exactly, if you're playing a decent japan you may resign at start coz it's an impossible matchup unless you outrank your oponent big time.

[quote=""HuggyPierre""]
Nah Cossacks beat them. The problem is the second unit he has. Ashis beat Cossacks and Muskets and Yumis beat Muskets and Strelets faster than Cossacks beat Nagis. Plus, massed Yumis somehow beat Cav, if the cav can't touch them (Nagis).[/quote]


Cossacks? He doesn't even need ashis when all he has to do is bring out some FREE konshas from his consulate and even without the konshas, the jap eco can hold an early cav spam a lot more effectively than the russian eco.

[Kaiser_von_Nuben]

I hate this matchup, though it can be won. As everyone has said, pressure is essential. But that is easier said than done, because it is really tough to raid the Japanese econ. Cossacks don't do much good when all their villies are two steps away from the TC and you can't kill shrines early; personally I find a good strelet mass better for picking off cherry-pickers from range: The more time they spend garrisoned the better. Problem is, once he sees you have lots of infantry, in come the nagi, which CAN beat crappy Russian muskets unless you have about 20 of them. If you go all musket, yumis and ashis beat them without much trouble. Ashi can handle strels in numbers under 23, and yumis slaughter them. He goes yumi defense and you bring cossack: Free clubs. He goes ashi defense and you mass strels: nagis from stable built behind the TC with free shrine wood. You try to meatshield the ashi with cossacks: ashi/club time. Meanwhile his shrine econ goes through the roof as you fritter away your food on massive infantry and villie purchases. Yes, it is a hard game :-P

[huGGy]

[quote=""EndlessPower""][quote=""Tatltael""]nagi > everything russia has in age 2[/quote]

U took my words
Exactly, if you're playing a decent japan you may resign at start coz it's an impossible matchup unless you outrank your oponent big time.

[quote=""HuggyPierre""]
Nah Cossacks beat them. The problem is the second unit he has. Ashis beat Cossacks and Muskets and Yumis beat Muskets and Strelets faster than Cossacks beat Nagis. Plus, massed Yumis somehow beat Cav, if the cav can't touch them (Nagis).[/quote]


Cossacks? He doesn't even need ashis when all he has to do is bring out some FREE konshas from his consulate and even without the konshas, the jap eco can hold an early cav spam a lot more effectively than the russian eco.[/quote]

I wasn't speaking about a cav spam. Tatl just said Nagis beat anything russia has in Age2. That's not exactly right (-> Cossacks). You have to start with muskets (5 free cossacks, then 13 strelets) and attack the jap-guy quickly. Bring down the stable asap. When he has the chance to get 6-8 Nagis out (+Conshas and shipments) it's gg.

[36drew]

[quote=""I__CHAOS__I""]FF for oprichniks and 3TC boom
they wont see it coming [/quote]

This would be really cool if it worked. LOL.

[I__CHAOS__I]

[quote=""36drew""][quote=""I__CHAOS__I""]FF for oprichniks and 3TC boom
they wont see it coming [/quote]

This would be really cool if it worked. LOL.[/quote]

I'd say I'll give it a go, but you'll see it coming

[Soccerman771]

[quote=""I__CHAOS__I""][quote=""36drew""][quote=""I__CHAOS__I""]FF for oprichniks and 3TC boom
they wont see it coming [/quote]

This would be really cool if it worked. LOL.[/quote]

I'd say I'll give it a go, but you'll see it coming [/quote]

If someone does try it, remember theres these things called petards at the arsenal. 1 per shrine = bye bye shrine..

[Kaiser_von_Nuben]

[quote=""Soccerman771""][quote=""I__CHAOS__I""][quote=""36drew""][quote=""I__CHAOS__I""]FF for oprichniks and 3TC boom
they wont see it coming [/quote]

This would be really cool if it worked. LOL.[/quote]

I'd say I'll give it a go, but you'll see it coming [/quote]

If someone does try it, remember theres these things called petards at the arsenal. 1 per shrine = bye bye shrine..[/quote]

That sounds good, too, provided, of course: (1) you make it to Age 3 and have enough wood to build an artillery foundry and 100 wood per petard; and (2) the Jappo hasn't run you over with ashis 8O

[EndlessPower]

[quote=""HuggyPierre""][quote=""EndlessPower""][quote=""Tatltael""]nagi > everything russia has in age 2[/quote]

U took my words
Exactly, if you're playing a decent japan you may resign at start coz it's an impossible matchup unless you outrank your oponent big time.

[quote=""HuggyPierre""]
Nah Cossacks beat them. The problem is the second unit he has. Ashis beat Cossacks and Muskets and Yumis beat Muskets and Strelets faster than Cossacks beat Nagis. Plus, massed Yumis somehow beat Cav, if the cav can't touch them (Nagis).[/quote]


Cossacks? He doesn't even need ashis when all he has to do is bring out some FREE konshas from his consulate and even without the konshas, the jap eco can hold an early cav spam a lot more effectively than the russian eco.[/quote]

I wasn't speaking about a cav spam. Tatl just said Nagis beat anything russia has in Age2. That's not exactly right (-> Cossacks). You have to start with muskets (5 free cossacks, then 13 strelets) and attack the jap-guy quickly. Bring down the stable asap. When he has the chance to get 6-8 Nagis out (+Conshas and shipments) it's gg.[/quote]

Not true. I have tested it in scenario editor. I made a fight between 1 nagi and 1 cossack, 5 nagis and 5 cossacks and 20 nagis and 20 cossacks.
Clearly if you consider both units' stats you'll see that nagis won all the battles. So I can clearly confirm that nagis do own everything russia has in age II. Tatl is right.


EDIT:
btw here are the results of my test

1 nagi vs 1 cossack = 1 nagi survives with about half HP

5 nagis vs 5 cossacks = 3 nagis survive

20 nagis vs 20 cossacks = 14 nagis survive

All battles were obviously unmicroed from both sides in order to confirm accurately which unit is stronger.