Theory around Chinese Colonial age up

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ckei
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Theory around Chinese Colonial age up

Post by ckei »

THEORY ABOUT CHINESE DISCOVERY-EARLY COLONIAL AGE

Note: Most of this is captain obvious stuff. But it migth be an intresting read. I made this based on RE patch.It is still just a theory,probably still needs some tweaking.

As China you have 2 different kinds of early building order; 300 food or 2 village+Northern refugees.
Both of these building orders represent the extreme.; 300 food gives you an fast age up(4:00 min) and allows for very aggressive early game ,but at the expense on the economy .While 2 village+ northern refugees on the other hand gives you an good economy+ a big pop space that is very useful for the chinese early game.But a poor age up time and a more passive early game(usually).Because im not a big fan of slow age up time nor a crappy economy I have tried to optimize the early game to a stage where I can have a decent economy+ a decent age up time.The solution is rather simple and obvious; 1 village+northern refugees.

It gives me:
a) an decent economy.Not as good as 2 village northern refugees,but neither as bad as 300 food rush.

b) an decent age up time.The build order makes me on par with the standard European age up(4:30)
Which means that Im roughly about 30 seconds faster than 2 village+Northern refugees and 30 secs slower than 300 food.

.Because im 30 sec faster than the Standardized age up(2 village+Northern refugees.),I can build my war academy 30 secs faster and I also get my second shipment faster.Which means that I get an tiny advantage over the 2 village+Northern refugees early on .

However there is a problem; Im short on pop space !. This is quite a disadvantage as I need as much pop as possible to be able to train villagers and military simultaneously ,but there is a simple solution. Just ship 700 wood and get a village up. But this means that I end up using my second shipment to a recource card instead of shipping military, 8 chu ko nu for example which could have resulted in giving me map control but also a stronger defence.
BUT we can manipulate the xp income so that we get the next shipment faster by building, getting treasures and training units.

THE SOLUTION: We build as much as we can get for 700 wood.

700 wood = 2 villages,consulate and a market = 2x40+50+20=150xp
or
1 village,consulate,1 tp and a market.=40+50+40+20=150 xp

That’s a free 150 xp to the third shipment without including villager train, banner army training or age up wonder ( 240xp) and if we builded a tp and got lucky with the tradecart going by we can get a nice 50 xp boost. The Third shipment is worth/costs 400 xp ,so we should get the third shipment rather quickly.

Note: the optimized build order can only be done when going standard army

SUMMARY

These are after game summary Optimized age up vs 2 village+northern refugees.Feel free to discuss ;)
I played the both games on Andes without using treasures ( I know, its not the best test map. )

Shipments total with 2 village+northern refugee
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Shipments with 1 village+northern refugee
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militarycount+2villager+northern refugees
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1village+northern refugees
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Soccerman771
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Re: Theory around Chinese Colonial age up

Post by Soccerman771 »

[quote=""ckei""]THE SOLUTION: We build as much as we can get for 700 wood.

700 wood = 2 villages,consulate and a market = 2x40+50+20=150xp
or
1 village,consulate,1 tp and a market.=40+50+40+20=150 xp

That’s a free 150 xp to the third shipment without including villager train, banner army training or age up wonder ( 240xp) and if we builded a tp and got lucky with the tradecart going by we can get a nice 50 xp boost. The Third shipment is worth/costs 400 xp ,so we should get the third shipment rather quickly.
[/quote]

A bunch of great ideas. The thing that makes me agree, being a China player, is that we essentially waste a card to make a decent age up time and have to do something quirky, chop wood or gather crates.

Reminds me of Portugal a few patches back where you were forced to ship crates to age up at a decent time just to survive.

On the 700 wood shipment ^^ I always, always, always build 1 village, the consulate, and a TP(natives if a normal TP is not available) that's 650 and the other 100 helps me get another village quickly as that's what most people go after against China.

Good ideas, great topic.
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Aaryn_GenD
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Re: Theory around Chinese Colonial age up

Post by Aaryn_GenD »

you two grasped teh idea, if you ship 700w put it to imemdiate use, games where your 700w shipment pays off 4-5mins later are not so ideal

i still prefer the 2 village+northern refugees, but only if you can get them without having to chop too much wood. a 300w start+ some nice wood treasure easily enables this. you can easily tweak your age-up time by either food or wood treasures.
i'd go with the 3 vills anyday rather than the 2vill one (yes do't forget to count the TC also) when it's a normal matchup. if your resources won't grant you this, 1village+northern refugees(2 vills) is the way to go

when goign 300f, i think xp treasure pay off nicely cuz you get the shipment exactly when you need it, and not when you already clicked to age-up and the food crates not helping your age-up at all
i'd use the 300food age-up only in emergencies
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Re: Theory around Chinese Colonial age up

Post by deadhanddan »

300 food age up is needed in about 50% of your matches. vs. slow/boomy civs u do 3 vill+700 wood first , vs. the other civs you need to do 300 food+mili ship as first cards. whenever i play vs. china i hope that my opponet does the slower and more boomy strat because it makes my rush that more easier to pull off.
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Re: Theory around Chinese Colonial age up

Post by ChrisTheMean »

Sumptuary laws can be a good first shipment for them too. IIRC its =2.5 (unraidable) vills, you dont really screw your eco or age up time too much, but 700 wood is necessary ASAP in age 2. I prefer to send the vills late-colonial once I have ~5-6 villages for a 6-7 vill card. Thoughts? Good post Ckei, the early Chinese is a delicate ballance, for sure!
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Re: Theory around Chinese Colonial age up

Post by deadhanddan »

[quote=""ChrisTheMean""]Sumptuary laws can be a good first shipment for them too. IIRC its =2.5 (unraidable) vills, you dont really screw your eco or age up time too much, but 700 wood is necessary ASAP in age 2. I prefer to send the vills late-colonial once I have ~5-6 villages for a 6-7 vill card. Thoughts? Good post Ckei, the early Chinese is a delicate ballance, for sure![/quote] i tend to save the vill card until i have 4-5 villages also , most matches i find that army shipments are neccesary asap , 700 wood as first colo ship is a good card in team games but in 1v1 vs. certain civs you will be rushed hard and forced to turtle. the thing about china is that you can train villagers while aging like japan and india , so the vill card being used immediately isnt a top priority but rather getting a good age up time is so that if needed you can send army and make army that much quicker.
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Re: Theory around Chinese Colonial age up

Post by I__CHAOS__I »

nice post ckei
only thing I can add is that you can also save that first shipment or ship the TP wagon if you plan on taking 3-4 TPs
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