Iro TP Start

[deaconferal]

So lately I have been using a standard Iro rush and have always been overjoyed when I get a 300 wood start, meaning I can throw up a TP right away. I find that it really helps get my mass going much quicker because I have a new shipment almost as soon as my 4 Kanya (2nd shipment) arrives. However, do any of you Iro players out there think it would be beneficial to chop 50 wood on a 200 wood start to build one anyways? Since the starting travois can act as a house, you won't need to build one until the transition to colonial anyways. I will need to get around to trying this but was just curious as to whether anyone had success with it or not.

Thoughts?

[deadhanddan]

chop an extra 50 wood on top of the 300 start wood and get a firepit up asap for xp dance

[deaconferal]

[quote=""deadhanddan""]chop an extra 50 wood on top of the 300 start wood and get a firepit up asap for xp dance[/quote]

The more and more you plug this idea the more tempted I am to try it. I'll get around to it sometime... :-P

[deadhanddan]

[quote=""deaconferal""][quote=""deadhanddan""]chop an extra 50 wood on top of the 300 start wood and get a firepit up asap for xp dance[/quote]

The more and more you plug this idea the more tempted I am to try it. I'll get around to it sometime... :-P[/quote]haha , i'll be sure to say exactly this every time i see you on eso!

[generalbuschmann]

if u have 100 gold start build a field with the travois, gather like 25 wood and then make the first upgrade in the mill, the upgrade is for herds , berrys and for fields. thats very good because for aenna and toma you need lots of food.

on maps with 300 wood i would make a tp. i´m not fan of xp dance for iro early on because you loose villagers on food => you get less units out and a villager on the firepit isn´t as good as a warpriest(aztecs)


edit: on a map like mongolia i would make a field, because of the cows ?

[Sporting_Lisbon]

If you're rushing on a low crate map, forget upgrade techs. Getting a market for hunting dogs means less 150w. On 200w situations you should build a tp only in case you find a wood treasure. If you gather 50w, you're slowing down your age up AND you'll have to gather 125w just for a longhouse and only after that you'll start gathering wood for tomas.

DeaconFeral, I recommend watching my VOD, it includes two iroquois rushing games vs high rated players

[etrips888]

I personally love the TP start, but being the noob iro player I am I thought I would ask a few more questions.

Sporting, when you say you have to gather another 125 wood for a longhouse too, couldnt you just use your travios for that? I don't really mind gathering the 50 wood, because by the time i get to 2nd age I have a nice supply of shipments to spam for my rush.

Good point about the 100 gold start working well with the farm. I never saw the point of it without the cows, but that upgrade would be a great addition. Is it better than hunting dogs?

Ill rewatch the VOD you posted sporting, cause iro are becoming really interesting again lol. You should post more. I know I would be grateful!

[deaconferal]

You need to have two longhouses when you hit colonial though, so one comes from the travois and the other you must build. I've never tried the farm build either.

[Sporting_Lisbon]

Good point about the 100 gold start working well with the farm. I never saw the point of it without the cows, but that upgrade would be a great addition. Is it better than hunting dogs?

It's the same as hunting dogs but works for berries and farms too. Since it costs 100w 75c and you start with 200w 100c, you'd have to gather 25 wood for the first longhouse. I'd recommend it for eco directed strats, it's totally unrecommended for rushes.

[Sporting_Lisbon]

Ah Deacon, I see you have already seen the vod. Actually the iro games weren't that standard, especially the Deccan one due to crates, and it might make a bit difficult understanding exactly what to do with iros. The standard build order is more or less the same as the one vs Spain, but with 15 vills instead of 17. Anyway, adapting is the key even 17 vill age up rushes can work hehe

[etrips888]

[quote=""deaconferal""]You need to have two longhouses when you hit colonial though, so one comes from the travois and the other you must build. I've never tried the farm build either.[/quote]

as long as I keep at least 3 vills on wood throughout the ageup I usually don't have that big of a problem having enough wood for the next longhouse. But I could be thinking of games that I got 300 wood..

I think I asked you about this before sporting, but when do you like going more eco directed game compared to rush? Cause when ive played iro ive found a harder rushing strategy much more effective, but is it better to play eco when going against say brit, dutch or port?

[generalbuschmann]

with a tp u get more shipments (units) to rush

the field upgrade helps to get the tc bb faster and its easier to build settlers and units in early colonial. with cows on the map you have a great boost after maybe 9-10 min (e.g. mongolia) (if you get some good treasures u can get maybe the second upgrade too)

so i think you can rush with a field too

there are lots of iro games of the fp 1.0 tourney. the bo´s for iros havent changed much imo

[Sporting_Lisbon]

[quote=""etrips888""][quote=""deaconferal""]I think I asked you about this before sporting, but when do you like going more eco directed game compared to rush? Cause when ive played iro ive found a harder rushing strategy much more effective, but is it better to play eco when going against say brit, dutch or port?[/quote][/quote]

There are some situations where it's damn impossible to rush/harass, like a happy port that gets 2 tcs together so you might want to get 5 tomas to make him think you'll rush him and keep turtling while you outboom him. Vs brits and dutch you should go for a rush too, since you won't be able to outboom them and they're a bit susceptible to rushes.

Vs the rest of the civs it depends on the map. For instance, on a sea map, the opponent will get really really confused if you don't attack him and still stay ahead on score with a fish boom. To fish boom, use the discovery travois to get a dock (you have to get LOS with the explorer first, the travois doesnt have enough LOS to build it alone) and build a longhouse (it's a good option when you start with 200w 100c or if it's a sea map without tp, like indochina, hispaniola...) You either age up with fast poli or eco poli depending on the other civ's ability to rush. Vs port you can pick eco poli, but vs, say, an otto, aztec other iro or other "in your face" rush civ you'd better age with the fast poli. Then you can ship 4 kanyas as 2nd card to harass, and then build units from hut while shipping vills and getting the market upgrades with the coin and making fishing boats from the dock.

The iro fishboom is just as good as any other civ since even tho you don't have as cheap boats you have more vills and market upgrades to gather wood while you have a wood/food only eco that allows you to spam aenna/toma/kanya as you want.

Now that you ask, I dont remember going for a eco politician on land maps vs any other civ other than ports because I don't like aging up late without getting a big benefit.

[deaconferal]

[quote=""Sporting_Lisbon""][quote=""etrips888""][quote=""deaconferal""]I think I asked you about this before sporting, but when do you like going more eco directed game compared to rush? Cause when ive played iro ive found a harder rushing strategy much more effective, but is it better to play eco when going against say brit, dutch or port?[/quote]

There are some situations where it's damn impossible to rush/harass, like a happy port that gets 2 tcs together so you might want to get 5 tomas to make him think you'll rush him and keep turtling while you outboom him. Vs brits and dutch you should go for a rush too, since you won't be able to outboom them and they're a bit susceptible to rushes.

Vs the rest of the civs it depends on the map. For instance, on a sea map, the opponent will get really really confused if you don't attack him and still stay ahead on score with a fish boom. To fish boom, use the discovery travois to get a dock (you have to get LOS with the explorer first, the travois doesnt have enough LOS to build it alone) and build a longhouse (it's a good option when you start with 200w 100c or if it's a sea map without tp, like indochina, hispaniola...) You either age up with fast poli or eco poli depending on the other civ's ability to rush. Vs port you can pick eco poli, but vs, say, an otto, aztec other iro or other "in your face" rush civ you'd better age with the fast poli. Then you can ship 4 kanyas as 2nd card to harass, and then build units from hut while shipping vills and getting the market upgrades with the coin and making fishing boats from the dock.

The iro fishboom is just as good as any other civ since even tho you don't have as cheap boats you have more vills and market upgrades to gather wood while you have a wood/food only eco that allows you to spam aenna/toma/kanya as you want.

Now that you ask, I dont remember going for a eco politician on land maps vs any other civ other than ports because I don't like aging up late without getting a big benefit.[/quote][/quote]

I found this post extremely enlightening, thanks for sharing. And yes, I did watch the VOD's as well and found them very useful. If you play any games with Iroquois in the near future, make sure to record them. I'd love to watch more games from your perspective.